Bankrupt?????????????????

[AAStew]

Just for the record, how many people on here do you think are going to vote NO?
When it comes down to it, votes are private. Don't everyone jump on me now, even though I think Carty is a despicable human being along with Jane Allen and the rest of them, I will probably vote yes if we have a revote. If anyone on here can change my mind logically and sensibly, please do so.
Apfah8r, you are way off base on alot of your comments about APFA members. They are insulting and demeaning. Personally I hope all you manage are papers as you do not seem to handle people well.

 

[KCFlyer]

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On 4/22/2003 1:48:39 PM 767jetz wrote:

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Uhhhhh, NO! Those are your words not mine, KCFlyer. Being the 4th or 5th airline to go CH11 is not what I would call being a guinea pig.

No, but being the first to go Chapter 11 without any "protection" negotiated beforehand would make them the guinea pig

In fact, I would rather AA not go CH11. If they take less cuts outside of CH11, I will have a better shot at a bigger raise in 6 years. I also think UA would have a cost advantage over AA if they stay out of CH11.

On the other hand, if AA went chapter 7, a whole lot of system capacity would be cut, and the harsh reality is that you would have an even better chance of getting a bigger raise in 6 years.

Your read on hatred for management is way off also. Things are relatively peacful at UA right now. We are running an awesome operation, we are #1 in ontime performance for 2002 and 2003, we are well on track for meeting the DIP hurdles by a good margin, and as much as the cuts hurt, a majority of employees have accepted the pain and have moved forward. Our agreements have passed or will pass by large margins.

My read on hatred for management is based on this - if, in the highly unlikely event, the employees of AA are treated better by a bankruptcy court than UAL and U employees were treated by concessions, it certainly wouldn't instill the "warm fuzzies" in most of the membership.

IMHO, the bankruptcy courts will make Carty look like Mother Theresa - and that's why I question the logic of voting No when their company is standing right outside the bankruptcy judge's door. So a No vote gives them the satisfaction of getting back at Carty. That's the upside. Care to consider the down side?

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[AAproud]

Just for the record your a week behind because AA paid the interest payments due on outstanding loans. They were paid on April 15th and then another payment was made on April 16th.
"AMR made millions of dollars in loan payments due Tuesday pending the flight attendants'' revote Wednesday. With another round of loan payments due Wednesday"
There is not any point that is positive in bankruptcy once your there it''s a done deal...The unions will not be able to say hey wait we want a re-vote....we don''t trust the federal judge.
Nope no re-votes in bankruptcy....then a few months down the road when and if you find another job after being laid off from American you will be rethinking how good you had it and that in the big picture maybe bankruptcy was not the right choice. Wake up and smell the coffee....do your homework before you get on here and talk about taking chances with bankruptcy...there is no chance to take once you file the federal judge takes over the finances of the company....plain and simple...

 

[AAStew]

If I was truly interested I would (sorry Eric),Check Employye Directory.

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

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On 4/22/2003 12:18:15 PM FA Mikey wrote:

Brilliant, just what AA needs more people in management positions that have a predetermined hatred of one or all of its work groups.

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We do need to balance out the number of people with a predetermined hatred of anyone in a management or supervisory role, you know...

 

[Oliver Stone''s Apprentice]

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On 4/22/2003 2:52:37 PM AAStew wrote:

I hope all you manage are papers as you do not seem to handle people well.

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must.... resist..... the..... urge..... to..... reply........

 

[AAStew]

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On 4/22/2003 4:15:53 PM eolesen wrote:

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On 4/22/2003 2:52:37 PM AAStew wrote:

I hope all you manage are papers as you do not seem to handle people well.

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must.... resist..... the..... urge..... to..... reply........

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Oh please Eric, do reply. Seriously what do you do for AA? If I ever see you onboard I will be sure to introduce nyself as AAstew.
Now do you handle personnel or papers, huh sweetie?

 

[TWAnr]

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On 4/22/2003 4:37:49 PM AAStew wrote:


Oh please Eric, do reply. Seriously what do you do for AA?

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Can''t you simply check this out in the employee directory in Jetnet?

 

[767jetz]

KC Flyer,

1- Just for your information, UA filed for CH11 before having any negotiated protection for the employees. Management submitted the 1113 papers to void the contracts. Agreements were finally hammered out WHILE IN CH11, and then the company withdrew it's 1113 request. Please get your facts straight.

2- I think there is almost a Zero % chance of AA or UA going CH7. Therefore I do not see that as an advatage to UA, and stick to my first statement. I think my company would benefit more by AA staying out of CH11.

3- As I tried to tell you, here at UA we are not looking over our shoulders at what is going on with AA employees. We have our own house to look after. We have our new agreements. Whatever happens to AA and it's employees will not affect the moral at UA or our relationship with management.

4- IMHO voting yes or no will not change the outcome. AA will go into CH11, either this week, or months down the road. The employees should not be worried about getting a worse deal in CH11, and should rather be deciding what will be the best path to ensure the best outcome (the least worst) for them WHEN AA files for CH11. That path MIGHT be to say "no" to management unless they negotiate in good faith. The employees at AA have already demonstrated their willingness to negotiate in good faith. The company has not. There are many legal experts saying that the unions have a very good legal case so far. That may produce a better outcome for them throught the courts. IMO of course.

 

[rampguy]

It has been stated by many (including me) that the employees will do much worse with a bankruptcy judge than a negotiated concessionary agreement. The TWU stated as bluntly as possible that we MUST approve the new agreement and even printed up a scenerio about how bad things can get if we vote no. Well, we all might be PO''d but our reasoning before is the same now regardless of Don Carty''s blunder. I will still vote yes and I am not prepared to see deeper cuts in personell and deeper pay & benefit concessions just to let out some steam. Now if you want to vote NO, then go ahead but just vote with your head and not your emotions.