Atlanta-LaGuardia Resuming in January
- Thread starter MAH4546
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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and what will be different this time around? AA's average fares were well below the market before.
Glenn Quagmire
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Good news. I am certain they will be the most successful DFW based legacy carrier in the ATL-LGA market.MAH4546 said:
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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the Love Field based airline pulled down better average fares than the DFW based carrier who used to fly it, including when that DAL based airline used its MCO base low fare carrier.
maybe the 717s really do command higher fares than CRJs in any version, esp. since UA has decided they have to put some mainline aircraft on ATL-EWR if they want to compete against DL's massive mainline schedule.
maybe the 717s really do command higher fares than CRJs in any version, esp. since UA has decided they have to put some mainline aircraft on ATL-EWR if they want to compete against DL's massive mainline schedule.
Glenn Quagmire said:
Bwahahahaha. Priceless.
The schedule has one enormous flaw, which is the lack of a northbound ATL departure after 1630. Nonetheless, perhaps in time they'll be able to work on that given slot changes. In general, though, glad to see AA returning to this market which was - by far - the largest and highest-profile that they exited with the LGA/DCA slot divestitures earlier this year. I do wonder whether this resumption is being driven by some corporate contract that AA picked up that required or demanded a nonstop on this route (which is, of course, a huge O&D market) - both Parker and Kirby have spoken in recent months about how the network benefits of the merger were already starting to have a positive effect on attracting corporate contracts, and both specifically cited NYC where the combination of AA's network ex-JFK/LGA with, in particular, the USAirways shuttle was proving lucrative.
Personally, don't see this being any more of a long-shot than Delta announce that they will be adding 4 daily RJs of their own in the coming months as entrant #5 into the already-crowded LAX-DFW market. We shall see ...
I assumed that the four daily CR7s between LGA and ATL was in retaliation for DL's recent LAX-Texas announcements; that or the NYC corporate contract customers asked Parker and Kirby, "Why does the world's largest airline not fly the third busiest O&D route from LGA (within the perimeter, after CHI and S Florida)?"
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
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of course it is.... or the AA fan base better hope it is.
or else the notion of having 15 flights per day from LAX-DFW means nothing at all in terms of holding onto corporate contracts since DL will enter LAX-DFW with the same number of flights as AA will enter ATL-LGA, the difference being that DL will use a larger and more comfortable large RJ.
as for the ATL-LGA schedule, what market does AA expect to tap into? AA is far smaller than DL on both ends of the route. Having no NB flight that late would make sense if AA was able to pull ATL traffic but there isn't a single ATL route that AA operates that they are larger than DL.
4 CR7s per day is nothing in terms of AA's total expenses but if AA underperformed DL by 33% in average fares in the past, it is a stretch to think they will operate at parity now.
in contrast, DL's average fares on the routes from DFW on which it compete with AA are virtually identical.
in fact, if you remove DFW-LGA, DL has higher average fares and boards less than 10 fewer passengers per day to/from DFW compared to AA on the routes the two directly compete on.
WorldTraveler
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"S" ?
WorldTraveler
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I didn't say it was genius. I said DL chose to compete in a market from a city where it competes very effectively.
The fact that DL carries as many local passengers from DFW at identical fares as AA in every market they compete except for LGA - and even there DL has 20% of the market - says DL does indeed stand a very good chance of making LAX-DFW work.
DL is growing its capacity from N. Texas including from both DAL and DFW, something I said they would do.
In contrast, AA's current capacity at ATL (on a combined AA/US basis) is down. The ATL-LGA flights will help bring them back to equal - but AA/US still operate at an average fare disadvantage to DL, just as they do at NYC
I asked the question as to what AA would do this time that would close the gap in average fares with what they did before and I haven't heard an answer yet.
whether it is easy for you to hear or not, DL competes better in the markets it serves from AA's hubs than the other way around.
The fact that DL carries as many local passengers from DFW at identical fares as AA in every market they compete except for LGA - and even there DL has 20% of the market - says DL does indeed stand a very good chance of making LAX-DFW work.
DL is growing its capacity from N. Texas including from both DAL and DFW, something I said they would do.
In contrast, AA's current capacity at ATL (on a combined AA/US basis) is down. The ATL-LGA flights will help bring them back to equal - but AA/US still operate at an average fare disadvantage to DL, just as they do at NYC
I asked the question as to what AA would do this time that would close the gap in average fares with what they did before and I haven't heard an answer yet.
whether it is easy for you to hear or not, DL competes better in the markets it serves from AA's hubs than the other way around.
topDawg
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I think Delta is going to burn money on LAX-DFW just like i think AA is going to burn money ATL-LGA.commavia said:
but if you want to attract corp contracts you have to fly routes like that.
I also think DCA-ATL is a huge hole in the AA network.......
I think its your second one.FWAAA said:
I think AA burns money on it, cuts it and its corp contract demand that it come back so it does. Around and around we go.
WorldTraveler
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except that AA cut LGA-ATL just a few months ago, relatively speaking, and no one has yet to say why they are going to do better now... and why they didn't believe they could make it work before they cut it - which was AFTER the merger.
In contrast, DL last flew DFW-LAX when DFW was a hub, at the same when AA outperformed DL in every market that DL served from DFW except ATL. Now, DL competes on parity with AA in terms of volume and number of passengers in the markets they compete in from DFW except for LGA. on DFW-LGA, DL still has 20% of the market and gets 95% of the average fare that AA gets.
The reason why DL is restarting DFW-LAX is because they still have a base of passengers that use DL and which likely can help DL succeed - DL already flies from DFW to the west via MSP and SLC.
DL is adding LESS capacity to the DFW market than what Virgin is removing. AA's real threat in the market will come from capacity that comes in at DAL and DL's opportunity in DFW-LAX will come as WN and Virgin break AA's dominance of the N. Texas to LAX market.
it would make far more sense for AA to start ATL-DCA where DCA functions as a hub instead of LGA where AA will go up on a point to point basis with RJs against DL which has hubs on both ends of the route and WN which will still have multiples more capacity than AA has in the ATL-LGA market.
good for AA for making another run at ATL-LGA but it appears to be little more than their need to try to act as if DL's incursion into DFW-LAX won't go unchallenged.... with no evidence they will do better than they did in that market or the other DCA and LGA to other DL hub markets that AA pulled back.
In contrast, DL last flew DFW-LAX when DFW was a hub, at the same when AA outperformed DL in every market that DL served from DFW except ATL. Now, DL competes on parity with AA in terms of volume and number of passengers in the markets they compete in from DFW except for LGA. on DFW-LGA, DL still has 20% of the market and gets 95% of the average fare that AA gets.
The reason why DL is restarting DFW-LAX is because they still have a base of passengers that use DL and which likely can help DL succeed - DL already flies from DFW to the west via MSP and SLC.
DL is adding LESS capacity to the DFW market than what Virgin is removing. AA's real threat in the market will come from capacity that comes in at DAL and DL's opportunity in DFW-LAX will come as WN and Virgin break AA's dominance of the N. Texas to LAX market.
it would make far more sense for AA to start ATL-DCA where DCA functions as a hub instead of LGA where AA will go up on a point to point basis with RJs against DL which has hubs on both ends of the route and WN which will still have multiples more capacity than AA has in the ATL-LGA market.
good for AA for making another run at ATL-LGA but it appears to be little more than their need to try to act as if DL's incursion into DFW-LAX won't go unchallenged.... with no evidence they will do better than they did in that market or the other DCA and LGA to other DL hub markets that AA pulled back.
