Are We Ready?

[PITbull]

N6,

Every business needs to endeavor to "improve" the business, and the business model; otherwise, you don't stay in business.

Our business is air travel, and "on time" is fundamental.

Instead of improving the business considering the "fundamentals", this management only focus is in improving the blance sheet when it comes to employee labor costs. And they endeavor to do this over and over and over again...

 

[usairways85]

well after looking at flight arrival info for PHL it looks like there are very few delays over 45min/1 hour for flights between 12-4. I also looks like many flights between 2-4 will be arriving ahead of schedule

 

[tadjr]

well after looking at flight arrival info for PHL it looks like there are very few delays over 45min/1 hour for flights between 12-4. I also looks like many flights between 2-4 will be arriving ahead of schedule

How do the departures look? Not just the off the gate times, but the arrival times into the downline city from the deicing/departure backups. From what I've seen those dont look as good. Not as bad as last time , but still enough to bog down the rest of the system tonight. Hopefully it will clear up quickly.

 

[MarkMyWords]

DCD brings up a very valid point. US can be fully prepared to handle the deicing event with all means of deicing full operational and staffed, but ATC can't do it's part. So once again we are at the mercy of a faulty- outdated - ATC system.

That being said, we know that on a good day PHL can barely handle the arrival rate of 60. Add snow and deicing, runway closures for snow removal, etc and we KNOW that we will have problems. What do we do about it? NOTHING! We continue to plan to operate everything and pay for the entire day. Deicing delays went to a max of 2 hours, and deicing stopped in the afternoon when snow changed to rain. Had this event continued for the entire day, we would have been sunk 10 times worse then we were this morning. The residual delays will cascade to the end of the day.

Why did we not try to cancel some of the traffic in PHL in advance? We ended up with multiple cancellations throughout the system, but nothing done to preplan for this event. My point will continue to be, if we know it is coming, we know it will have an effect, then why not do something about it PRIOR to the event happening?

 

[PITbull]

PIT's day was "uneventful" with a half foot of snow.

On time. Had a friend who flew from ORD to PIT. She said it was great, on time, no problems of any kind.


Damn, I love this airport, and everyone who workes here who make it perfect.

 

[usairways85]

I dont know PITbull:

after looking at some flight trackers for 18 US mainline flights scheduled to depart PIT between 530-715, 8 were delayed over 15min and 5 never departed

of the 9 Trans States flights scheduled 5-7, 3 were late and 4 never departed

and there are still 3 Chautaqua flights all scheduled to leave before 7pm that still have not departed.

To me, these numbers don't look too good, especially when the bulk of the storm has basically moved out.

 

[MarkMyWords]

PIT did hit a max delay of about 1 hour for deicing during the 5:45-7:00 bank for mainline, but for the most part, delays were what you would expect in a deicing operation. PHL hit a max delay of just over 2 hours in comparison.

 

[PITbull]

US85,

Just spoke to the Duty Manager in Systems 7:35 p.m.. He states NO problems in PIT; no deicing delays or problems. He said that if there are a few flights running late, that is because they came in from somewhere else late.

So, I don't know where you are citing your info. Pittsburgh airport service is s-m-o-o-t-h. His words; not mine.

 

[tadjr]

I dont know PITbull:

after looking at some flight trackers for 18 US mainline flights scheduled to depart PIT between 530-715, 8 were delayed over 15min and 5 never departed

of the 9 Trans States flights scheduled 5-7, 3 were late and 4 never departed

and there are still 3 Chautaqua flights all scheduled to leave before 7pm that still have not departed.

To me, these numbers don't look too good, especially when the bulk of the storm has basically moved out.

Just curious if you were able to track the inbound equipment as well? Did the delayed flights come into PIT delayed or were they on time and then took a delay leaving PIT? This would make a better comparison on how well PIT stand alone did as a station. If the inbound planes were delayed coming in from earlier delays, then it wouldnt be an accurate comparison. As far as the ones that didnt leave, where were they going to and why did they cancel? Did they cancel because of delays into the downline city, crew requirements (from other delayed flights) or because of PIT weather?

 

[MarkMyWords]

A good comparison would be from out to off. In PIT there were some planes that did take up to an hour during peak banks.....again, pretty normal during deicing. PHL out to off went to almost 2 hours prior to turning to a rain event. PHL's problem is compounded by the ATC issue versus PIT that ususally doesn't have any ATC issues. Also during the 17:45 bank there was a temporary ground stop due to snow removal. ....this could have had an impact on departures also.

 

[AOG-N-IT]

Lets not forget what the conditions might be at the final destinaton cities being served from PIT....the originator be it from PIT, PHL CLT or anywhere else for that matter , is not the end all factor most often.

By and large...when it comes to adverse weather operations...PIT is second to none. They are geared to this situation like no other I've seen..and that's the name of that tune.

Regards,
A loyal fan from CLT

 

[MarkMyWords]

Also, I didn't mean this to be a comparison between PIT and PHL and who is better at operating in bad weather. PHL airport has more then it's fair share of operational issues, many of which are out of our control. My issue is with our inability to plan for these events. We know it is coming. We know it will mess things up. We know you can't push 10 gallons of blue juice in a 5 gallon bucket, but yet we do NOTHING in advance of these storms. It is an utter disgrace.

 

[usairways85]

yeah ok, i forgot about the fact that some of the flights delayed in PIT could have been delayed in their city of origin when scheduled to fly to PIT. However to the common traveler a delay is a delay.

 

[ClueByFour]

There is little point comparing PIT and PHL from an operational standpoint. PHL does not have it's own equivilent to 10L and 10R at PIT, so it will never have simultaneous Cat III approaches (IIRC--I think the cat III approaches are to the 10s not the 28s--I'm sure a US pilot can correct me on this if I'm wrong). It does not have the two brand new de-icing pads. It does not have a crew who has one awards for bad weather operation. It does not have terminals with enough seperation to avoid traffic tie ups in the alleys during pushback operations. I could go on, but the point is that you can't compare the facilities--PIT wins this before the first airport or US employee comes to work in the morning.

The only thing that PIT needs, IIRC, is a pad that can de-ice a 330 in one shot. Of course, thanks to little Dave, PIT only sees one/day.

 

[BoeingBoy]

From the perspective of the pointy end, Clue is right. Comparing PIT & PHL is like comparing apples & oranges.

PIT has a first class deicing operation and enough runways that at least 2 can be open in all but the absolute worst conditions. Deicing adds to gate to runway time under the best of circumstances, but the combination of less flights and more de-icing capacity makes PIT one of, it not the best in the country.

PHL is handicapped even on non-deicing days, especially with an east operation. Throw in deicing (with inadequate capacity for the number of flights there) and a bad situation only gets worse. The only thing working in PHL's favor is that it normally has less deicing days per winter than PIT.

CLT is a completely different animal. On average there are 4 or 5 deicing days a winter (not counting frost on the few morning originators). Probably not cost effective to spend the money on fixed deicing facilities like PIT/PHL, although it would be nice to have them.

By the way, CAT III isn't a big factor unless you need it. In 8 years flying CAT III capable a/c (72 & 73-200 before that) I have yet to make a for-real autoland approach.

Jim