And the best transcon airline is...

[jcw]

didn't say that. I said that all the great passenger amenities don't matter if they can't generate profits. AA took a plane with much lower fuel burn and reduced the number of seats to produce the same fuel burn per passenger as the 762s and also eliminated the cargo carrying capability.



and of course cargo makes no sense in the transcon market because AA doesn't bother to carry it any more.

no, the simple fact is that AA made a strategic blunder with their transcon strategy and I'm sure there will be AA people trying to defned it until Parker scraps the whole project and puts dozens of more seats on the aircraft.

and then they'll say he didn't know what he was doing.

 
Have you flown it?  Do you know what customers are saying?  How can you say it's a blunder - I guess it's like SEA hub blunder DL is executing right now - oh that's right - when DL shinks int'l flying from SEA - it's perfect - but when AA adjusts TATL flying is a blunder
 
you never cease to amaze everyone in your thinking
 
Are you still working on that list of DL issues?  I think you are way past checking it twice - we are all waiting for the list - can you let us know when you will be posting it so we can all be sitting by our devices waiting to read it - it will be the most widely read post ever on this board

 

[mistified]

AA carried waaaay more than 9000 lbs of cargo per flight on the 767-200( LAX-JFK).
And if in fact Delta is only carrying 9000 lbs per flight on their 767-300 then they have not even come close to making up what AA left on the table.
I don't think you have your numbers right.

of course it is far from a full load... but that in the case of DL is repeated 5X per day.

and it is the same amount of cargo that AA carried on its 762s.... it just happened to switch carriers.

just because either the 762 or 763 could carry more doesn't mean the market exists to fill the bellies or equally that it isn't worth carrying what is there.

 

[WorldTraveler]

the cargo statistics are PER DEPARTURE. DL operates a mixed 757/767 schedule between JFK and LAX and the cargo nearly all flies on the 767s so it is far more per 767 flight than the per departure numbers.

The numbers have also been revised upward with the latest DOT data.

DL is now carrying more than 11K pounds of cargo PER DEPARTURE between JFK and LAX.

and no, AA's average cargo PER DEPARTURE was LESS than DL's is now because DL is carrying nearly as much cargo as AA did but DL has fewer departures.

as to AA's transcon product on the 321, I have NEVER said it wasn't a good product.

I have simply said that, if they can't make money with it, how great of a product it is doesn't matter.

and as for passenger statistics for the month of June, the most recent month that is available, AA saw a 20% decrease in passengers carried on the JFK-LAX SEGMENT and a decrease in its load factor while DL and VX both increased their LF and DL saw a nearly equal 20% increase in passengers carried.

on JFK-SFO, the same trend happened except it was DL and UA that gained.

AA's strategy was the best thing possible to help each of its 3 major JFK transcon competitors.

 

[robbedagain]

But if DL pulled widebodies and AA hadn't we'd be hearing that cargo is dying a business and what a waste on AA's part it would be.

Josh

josh  i had to give u a plus 1 on this   its so true    notice how wt manipulates to fit his pro dl narratives

 

[WorldTraveler]

it's DOT data, robbed.

I know you aren't much a numbers person but when your LF falls even after cutting capacity, it doesn't speak very highly about your strategies esp. when other carriers picked up as much as you cut.

 

[mistified]

WT
Could you please provide the exact link to the DOT data that shows airport, airline and route specific cargo carriage numbers?

Thanks in advance

 

[robbedagain]

Its not really DOT data its WT version of DOT data

 

[WorldTraveler]

WT
Could you please provide the exact link to the DOT data that shows airport, airline and route specific cargo carriage numbers?

Thanks in advance

it is indeed DOT data.

here is where you start.

http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/data_and_statistics/by_mode/airline_and_airports/airlines_and_airports_passengers_and_freight.html

I can't give you a tutorial on how to find the market specific data. It is in massive tables that you either know how to use or you don't.

 

[topDawg]

dawg,
you argue that the schedule is a dummy schedule beyond a couple months but then want to be that DL will reduce JFK-SEA to less than 4 flights/day in the peak season and not use 757s.
I'll take you on with that bet. what do I get when I win? - and I absolutely will

 

not what I posted at all. I said Delta isn't going back to all C class aircraft on the route. 
 
I also said that it will likely keep 2x 738 (along with 1 or 2x 757) 
 
 
 
and yes, May is still not live. APR 6 is the last live day. 

 

[mistified]

it is indeed DOT data.here is where you start.http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/data_and_statistics/by_mode/airline_and_airports/airlines_and_airports_passengers_and_freight.htmlI can't give you a tutorial on how to find the market specific data. It is in massive tables that you either know how to use or you don't.

Yes i looked at that before you responded.
However I don't think it provides the combination of filters of what you claim.
Go ahead and give the steps required to get to where you saw the 9000 lbs on 767-200
Lax - JFK average number?? I'm patient

 

[WorldTraveler]

it's not a question of patience.

it is a question of knowing what you are looking at and how to use the data.

you aren't going to learn how to use the data because you all of a sudden decided to click on a link.

The simple fact is that AA maintained its position as JFK's largest cargo airline for years.

AA lost that title within months of eliminating 767 service on JFK-LAX.

DL is now the largest cargo carrier at JFK and also continues to widen its lead over B6 as the largest passenger carrier as well.

You can tell me what else AA did to its network to lose that title, esp. during the summer, but I will tell you flat out it is because AA walked away from the transcon cargo market in an attempt to try to increase its passenger revenues - and yet in the process created an even larger opening for DL, UA, and VX to all increase their share of the market while AA's costs have not gone down but its revenues sure have.

you are free to believe whatever you want regarding cargo in the JFK-LAX market but it was a multi-million pound per month market that AA decided was no longer worth pursuing. You can do the math on how much cargo AA's system lost from publicly available data which is a lot more user friendly - such as the Port Authority's data here.

http://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-traffic/AUG2014_JFK.pdf

it's also worth noting that DL is the largest cargo carrier among passenger airlines at ALL 3 NYC airports. AA held that title last year but also gave it up and dropped from #1 to #3 behind not just DL but also UA.

http://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-traffic/ATR2013.pdf

the transcon cargo market from JFK is huge; AA chose to give up it up and has provided yet one more opening for DL to increase its strength in NYC which further weakens AA given that AA and DL directly compete against each other in most markets

 

[jcw]

it's DOT data, robbed.I know you aren't much a numbers person but when your LF falls even after cutting capacity, it doesn't speak very highly about your strategies esp. when other carriers picked up as much as you cut.

So you are the only one smart enough to read a table

One would clearly know that with US dramatic reduction in flying at LGA cargo would have to go down - brilliant conclusions

Hail to DL, hail to DL, hail to DL

Keep up the daily affirmations

 

[WorldTraveler]

uh, the statistics cited are for JFK, not LGA.

LGA cargo is a drop in the bucket - if even that much - compared to what is carried from JFK and EWR.

It's about training and knowing what to do with and how to interpret raw data.

The JFK-LAX cargo market was worth 2.5 million pounds per month for AA.

AA gave up the vast majority of that with its move from 762s to 321s; DL's cargo counts went up very closely to the same amount.

The statistics even from the PANYNJ show how large the JFK-LAX cargo market is - worth at least 10% of the total cargo each carrier carries/carried from JFK.

the JFK-LAX cargo market and the loss of transcon passengers is just the latest in a long string of moves by AA at JFK that have resulted in them becoming smaller and smaller while DL has grown.

whatever justification AA had for downgrading JFK-LAX to 321s was devoid of any thought of the strategic actions that others might take.

AA has repeatedly handed one market after another to DL; the JFK transcon markets for both passengers and cargo is just the latest.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

you are free to believe whatever you want regarding cargo in the JFK-LAX market but it was a multi-million pound per month market that AA decided was no longer worth pursuing. You can do the math on how much cargo AA's system lost from publicly available data which is a lot more user friendly - such as the Port Authority's data here.

http://www.panynj.gov/airports/pdf-traffic/AUG2014_JFK.pdf

it's also worth noting that DL is the largest cargo carrier among passenger airlines at ALL 3 NYC airports. AA held that title last year but also gave it up and dropped from #1 to #3 behind not just DL but also UA.
 

 
While we all see through WTs narrative / bias / sick obsession, etc., somebody new reading these posts for the first time might conclude that AA, or even all carriers are doomed and that DL, is destined for world domination.
 
That is until you actually take a look at the data a realize that, although DL is #1 in cargo at JFK, it isn't doom and gloom for AA. 
 
Shocker! 
 
For Aug 2014 the #1 airline at JFK by freight volume is DL at almost 106000 tons, followed by FedEx at almost 102000 tons, and then AA limps along (as WT would have you believe) at #3 with approximately 96500 tons.  That's about 10000 tons difference between DL and AA or less than 10% (rounding off my numbers here). 
 
If that is doom and gloom for AA and world domination for DL, well then OK, feel free to buy that, but I certainly won't. 
 
As a matter of fact I would be willing to bet if the cargo numbers for AA and DL were reversed, WT would be here claiming that DL and AA are virtually equal in cargo at JFK. 
 
There's your Whole Truth!

 

[WorldTraveler]

no one said anything about doom and gloom.

but go back and look at the statistics for the end of the year for the last several years.

AA was solidly the cargo leader at AA.

Despite having a larger passenger hub operation, DL was still behind AA.

the amount of cargo that AA lost is almost identical to what AA gained.

feel free to spin it the way you want but AA handed DL - not FedEx - about 10% of the cargo it carried from JFK and all DL had to do was add a couple 763s which it already had.

brush off a 10% drop in cargo volume at one of the largest cargo airports in the US if you wish but it is not chump change, esp. when it is on top of a 20% decline in passengers between JFK and LAX which also parallels what happened between AA and DL.