Analysts Call Southwest Fare Reductions Cutthroat

[jimntx]

Look at the stats, SWA has fewer employees per aircraft than every other legacy carrier.

Well, let's see. They have two people in the cockpit--required by the FAA. Same number as are in the cockpit of a 737 at AA, U, UAL, or any other airline flying that equipment. For that matter, it's the same number in the cockpit for any a/c except DC-10, 727, or 747.

And, SW has 1 f/a for every 50 seats or part thereof--i.e., 151 seats requires 4 f/as minimum. This is an FAA requirement. This is the same number of f/as as AA, or UAL, or JB, or Frontier for that many seats.

Given the difference between what AA flight attendants are being paid and the differences in the work rules for AA vs. SW flight attendants (SW's are better for the f/a), I doubt you could pay for the new contract by eliminating a few a/c cleaners. SW f/as can be scheduled for a maximum of 10.5 hours/day. AA f/as can be (and are) scheduled for a maximum of 13 hours/day.

I'm missing something here on the "fewer employees and better productivity" argument.

 

[700UW]

Thanks jim

Let me repost this again:

US Airways flies into 89 mainline stations, there are only utility at eight stations on first and second shift (those ten also have a third shift). The remaining ten stations are third shift only.

And if you get out of the cockpit and look at the planes, they are showing the lack of US Airways own utility cleaning the planes to standard, and even where they are staffed there is not sufficient workers to clean the planes and do the required security check

 

[johnnyfleet]

ALL of this is very intereesting but the point of the thread originally was how SWA can pay it's FA's the raises in their new contract, that was 320's point. It is simple really, they can pay more on any hourly basis because they get more work per FA out of them. Look at the stats, SWA has fewer employees per aircraft than every other legacy carrier. They also have a high aircraft utilization. That means they are geting more work out of each employee. Now that you have read this far I will beat you to the punch, IT AIN'T ALL DUE TO BAD MANAGEMENT. It is a better business model and better work rules also. USAirways employees need to figure out whether it is worthwhile to move to a new paradigm or move on to a new career or job. It is a simple as that.

What work rules are you talking about. I know that WN labor contracts for Customer Service and Fleet Service has stronger work rules, and stronger scope language than US does. WN is limited to 15% part time, but they have 0% part time................US is limited to 35% part time, and we have 35% part time!

 

[jimntx]

I forgot to mention...
AA flight attendants are limited to a top of scale of approx. $42/hr until at least 2008. If the new SW TA is approved, SW f/a will top out at over $50/hr in 2007.

AA flight attendants do not reach top of scale until their 16th year of flying. SW flight attendants will reach their new top of scale at 13 years.

 

[diogenes]

We don't dump the trash bins or clean the lavs. After sitting all night in the heat, it really smells. I don't believe the trash or lavs get dumped on RON's in many stations so you can imagine how nice that is, first flight in the morning!

:blink:

Dea

You should be getting the trash and lavs dumped on the RON's - it's one more duty for the rampies in most stations.

I'd fill out the aircraft appearance evaluation, and hand it to the PSS every day, if it wasn't done.

 

[SpinDoc]

Not sure what you mean by "old school" f/as. I guess that's on the same line as "OLD union mentality".

You forgot to mention that SW has great management.

PitBull:

What in the heck does that have to do with
WN F/A's getting a raise? It all comes down to
their work rules and seniority issues. WN F/A's
are agreeing to assume more work for the
pay they will receive and since most of their
F/A's are junior employees, it will cost WN less
money overall than legacy carriers with high
seniority. It has nothing to do with management,
and everything to do with the unions being
willing to agree to higher productivity.

And yes, you answered your own question.
"Old School" means "Old union mentaility"
which needs to change at US.

 

[diogenes]

I was talking about thru flights.

I flew out on an RON from a non-mtc station in first class, there was trash in the seat pocket, the pocket material was not in proper order and certain items were missing.

The ramp cleans the RON or a vendor at this station. Like I have said if US did business smart US would save money. US paid for a service that was not done.

One last thought, if they don't clean the plane properly, makes you wonder about the FAA mandated Security Check.

Well, let's go there.

In a situation I am familiar with, the three rampies must first unload from 3000 to 6000 lbs. of cargo, and deliver it to the customers. This includes human remains to the funeral homes, so it it time consuming. Then, back to the RON, first for cleaning, and then for the security check. Management doesn't schedule a whole lot of time for this, and heaven help you if you exceed the hours. Now, as the offload is set in stone, and the screening is a must-do-right, something has to give.

With regards to cleaning, to my knowledge, agents were advised to dump the trash and lavs, top off the water, wipe down the galley, tray tables and lavs, clean and restock the seat backs, vacuum the floor and mop the galley.

Now, while I understand this is not everything on the ME73A that utility performs, it is the abbreviated list approved by management -see the aforementioned time crunch.

There, a perfectly logical explanation that did NOT need the slacked-assed agents slur.

And since you are so up on all things union, kindly point me towards a written source that details the man-hours required for the RON cleaning of narrowbodies, and for the security screening of narrowbodies.

Because a local union dude I know has asked local and upper management, as well as local and district union types, fleet as well as M&R, and not a damn soul will give it up.

I do know when management beefed about going over man-hours about 30 minutes, and then beefed a bit about cleaning, when the steward asked for that info, everybody shut the hell up.

 

[700UW]

With regards to cleaning, to my knowledge, agents were advised to dump the trash and lavs, top off the water, wipe down the galley, tray tables and lavs, clean and restock the seat backs, vacuum the floor and mop the galley.

Now, while I understand this is not everything on the ME73A that utility performs, it is the abbreviated list approved by management -see the aforementioned time crunch.

There, a perfectly logical explanation that did NOT need the slacked-assed agents slur.

And since you are so up on all things union, kindly point me towards a written source that details the man-hours required for the RON cleaning of narrowbodies, and for the security screening of narrowbodies.

Because a local union dude I know has asked local and upper management, as well as local and district union types, fleet as well as M&R, and not a damn soul will give it up.

I do know when management beefed about going over man-hours about 30 minutes, and then beefed a bit about cleaning, when the steward asked for that info, everybody shut the hell up.

Let me tell you an airbus A319 with one person cleaning is around 5.5 man hours and one minute per seat for the security check.

I will get you the exact numbers from someone.

The ME-73A is the EXACT form utility uses.

And please enlighten me where in my post where I said anything about agents being slack?

I flew first class, yes FIRST class from a non-mtc station in the north, the plane is an RON aircraft, there was TRASH in the seat pocket, missing gift catalog, dog eared magazine and the pocket material was not in the right order. And the massive amounts of ink stains on the leather seat back in front of me.

Sorry telling it like it is, and I have seen the same sorry condition from some maintenance stations also.

Now if I was a paying passenger who PAID for first class, I would never fly US again for the condition of the plane.

That is reality, sorry if you don't like the truth, but that is what happened.

 

[AirplaneFan]

what ever happened to predatory pricing? That phrase was all in vogue during the 90's when the "legacy" carriers were accused of doing it. Now that SWA is doing THE EXACT SAME THING, it's all ok.

Its not predatory if you can make money at those fares. SW can. It is interesting why Feds have not gone after the other majors for predatory pricing since they have been charging fares under the cost structure for 3 years.

 

[TOGALOCK]

Several seem to miss the point about the productivity of the LCC's. Sure they have 2 pilots in the cockpit just like UAIR, the difference is that we have over ten pilots per aircaraft in the fleet and they have substantially fewer. We get more vacation, we have a more complicated reserve system, we have a hugely more complicated line holder system. All of those types of things add up to more employees per aircraft. Regarding things like fleet service and baggage handling look how many flights per day an employee works relative to UAIR and you will find the productivity answer.

 

[Fatherknowsbest]

Togalock......... you are REALLY missing the boat here. WHO do you think is responsible for aircraft utilization and the business models?


MANAGEMENT!

geezzzzzzzzzzz

 

[diogenes]

And please enlighten me where in my post where I said anything about agents being slack?

And please enlighten me where in my post where I said anything about agents being slack?

The implication is here:

"One last thought, if they don't clean the plane properly, makes you wonder about the FAA mandated Security Check."

Let me assure you, the out stations aren't getting anything like 5.5 man-hours plus one minute per seat. And as the offload has to happen, and the security check has to be right, sometimes something has to give. I don't like it, and it's not right for the customer, but employees do not staff the station or write the schedule.

Any resources you can direct me to would be appreciated

 

[700UW]

If you have the hub you can ascess the aircraft appearance manual on the mtc home page, it will tell you step by step on what needs to be done. And have they trained the agents on the security check?

And I am working on getting ahold of the hours per plane document.