Amr Results Falling Short Of Estimate

[jimntx]

Continental got there pay cuts in the early 90's after their 2nd bankruptcy. If you compare CO's pilot pay scales with AA's they're not much different (CO is a little higher) and AA has a much better retirement plan.

Note you say that CO pilot pay scales are higher than AA's. So are the flight attendant pay scales. In fact, instead of taking cuts last year like we did, the f/as got the last raise stipulated in their current contract as scheduled in DEC03. Their top of scale is now something like $4 or $6 per hour higher than AA's top of scale.

As far as the retirement plan, unless you are retiring within the next year, I wouldn't count too heavily on the AA plan. If UAL dumps theirs, I can assure you that it will be the cost cutting move du jour at the other legacies--AA, included.

I would say we can forget about what happened in the early 90's and concentrate on what is happening today. Kroger does not collect for my groceries based upon what I made in the 90's. And, today a CO pilot or f/a makes more than an AA pilot or f/a.

 

[wontflyforfood]

My original point was that CO was at the bottom of the 'Legacy' carriers prior to UAL, U and AA cuts (that's why they haven't been 'asked' for cuts)...Hopefully CO won't take any cuts but Bethune is leaving and who knows what happens then. As for AA pensions...I'm just telling you what AA has now and comparing that with CO. AA pilots have an 11% B-fund on top of the pensions (They also have an A-fund that is equal to CO's). When you include the B-fund in what an AA pilot makes they're paid about the same as CO.
Who knows what's going to happen, but all the Legacy carriers are headed on the same path. None of them are making money and they're all headed towards bankruptcy or the threat of bankruptcy..CO's already been there and hopefuuly they won't have to go there again.

I'm curious if you know what DAL F/A's make...I'm sure AA F/A's are the lowest.

 

[FWAAA]

As we're all finding out, what's the difference?

One key difference is that AA employees made higher wages than CO employees for the 10 years ended April 30, 2003. B)

 

[flyingmywingsoff]

More paycuts would quicken the downward spiral. More disgruntled union workers and more top flight management heading towards the door leaving the only the bottom of the barrel to run the company. Super. Where is my resume?

which is exactly what happened at twa..not that we had much top flight managment material to begin with. get ready aa, it can happen to you too.

 

[MiAAmi]

Its amazing how everyone over reacts to someone saying that the company is not meeting estimates. Were these estimates based on fuel prices going up? I don't think so. I'm not nieve to think that the company will not always scream broke but I think everyone is jumping the gun on another round of paycuts.

 

[Fly]

American Airlines Survival in Doubt

Updated: 06:06 PM EDT
American Airlines survival in doubt --union leader
By Jon Herskovitz, Reuters

DALLAS, July 7 (Reuters) - The former head of the union that represents pilots at American Airlines said the world's largest carrier may not survive in its current form despite a massive restructuring plan applauded by investors, according to a letter obtained on Wednesday.

John Darrah, who recently stepped aside as the head of the Allied Pilots Association, said the concession deal he and other labor unions hammered out with American last year aimed at saving $1.8 billion in annual labor costs, and helped the carrier avoid a near-term bankruptcy. But the long-term prospects are still questionable if the airline does not become more efficient.

 

[Borescope]

AA has a much better retirement plan.

But, when our management come in and throws our retirement in the crapper, it will be only a mater of time before your is gone too!!!!!!!

 

[goingboeing]

Gerard Arpey was in Tulsa last night and the Tulsa World QUOTED him saying that the morale is improving among the employee groups at AA. I don't work for the same AA that he does or maybe AA should issue all employees rose colored glasses.

 

[desertfox]

American Airlines Survival in Doubt

Updated: 06:06 PM EDT
American Airlines survival in doubt --union leader
By Jon Herskovitz, Reuters

DALLAS, July 7 (Reuters) - The former head of the union that represents pilots at American Airlines said the world's largest carrier may not survive in its current form despite a massive restructuring plan applauded by investors, according to a letter obtained on Wednesday.

John Darrah, who recently stepped aside as the head of the Allied Pilots Association, said the concession deal he and other labor unions hammered out with American last year aimed at saving $1.8 billion in annual labor costs, and helped the carrier avoid a near-term bankruptcy. But the long-term prospects are still questionable if the airline does not become more efficient.

Why would the media quote a FORMER union leader???!!


But then why does the media always find a "spokesman" for any issue that fits their agenda....

 

[jimntx]

Why would the media quote a FORMER union leader???!!

If he were former in the sense of 10 years ago that would be one thing, but Capt. Darrah is just now retiring. A week or so ago he was the CURRENT head of the union. So, I wouldn't discount totally what he had to say just because today he is the "former" head of the union.

 

[orwell]

No, Continental has never asked their employees for a dime in concessions. Granted, they have been making noises lately that they might have to furlough employees and/or ask for concessions, but it hasn't happened yet.

They can thank two bankruptcies for having had much lower labor costs to begin with.

 

[orwell]

IF AA can't make money after all the concessions, then it is time to SCUTTLE the ship and move on! There are other jobs and careers out there that pay better and don't have the B.S. of the airline business.

That was a charming picture. Why not just use an even more powerful one, like the 76 as it impacted on 9-11?

Fact is, if AA was coming in AHEAD of forecasts, there'd be a cacophony of outraged protestations about how the company had used fear tactics to cow the downtrodden masses into accepting more concessions than were really necessary.

As always, evil management just can't win. Not possible. Results come in behind forecast, and they're incompetent and the rally cry is "get ready to bend over again, workers. But the concession stand is closed!" Come in ahead of forecast, and they're devious shylocks. What a joke.

 

[WingNaPrayer]

As always, evil management just can't win.

...and as their past performance clearly dictates, they don't deserve to. The "heat" they are taking is duly earned.

 

[mweiss]

That's right. The ones who don't deserve criticism are those who claim to have the solutions to all of the company's problems, but keep it to themselves. 🙄

 

[orwell]

...and as their past performance clearly dictates, they don't deserve to. The "heat" they are taking is duly earned.

Fine - let's talk about past performance. Mgmt indeed has made many blunders, and they should be accountable.

But so has labor. What about all the heady talk in the past (and when I say past, I mean the past several decades) about "jacking the industry up one corner at a time?" You know - the old spirit that calls for "strangling" the golden goose for every last egg.

Do you not think wage inflation obtained at "gunpoint" (through the threat of shutdowns) has had SOME effect on the current health of the "legacy" carriers? Sure, mgmt found a way to make it work (by getting business travellers to subsidize high wages and junkfare tourists at the same time.) But labor leaders should have recognized where this was headed just as much as mgmt.

The bottom line is there will always be employees who think their "winning" an argument is even more important than whether or not the company survives.

Now THAT's what I call teamwork.

To be sure, there are other factors that B6 and the like take advantage of in parasitic ways - new junkfare carriers need not trouble themselves with commitments like pensions and they have a workforce with zero seniority (meaning "entry-level" wages and no one in their workforce has been jaded by paycuts or other givebacks.) Those are advantages that, if not overcome, could lead to a "recycling" of carriers every generation. One day, presumably, B6 will be faced with retirees. Maybe some future upstart will come along with lower costs and drive them away. The public doesn't give a rat's about airline employees, their pensions, their livlihoods or anything related. They care about one thing - and that's flying coast-to-coast for a fare lower than their IQ. Figuring out how to be profitable in that environment is the answer - end of story.