AMFA versues industrial unions all mechanics all airlines

[B737 driver]

When dead people were on the roster giving to the nmb so we did not have enough cards and the nmb sided against us.

Give it another shot, you may have the numbers, I am just saying we have AMFA really the first full section 6 ,we have done, can't get the company to move, much.You guys complain about your union doing conventions, or the international. About 40% of our dues goes to pay legal fees to the Seham law firm.Maybe American would do better, only you guys can answer that question.

 

[Buck]

Give it another shot, you may have the numbers, I am just saying we have AMFA really the first full section 6 ,we have done, can't get the company to move, much.You guys complain about your union doing conventions, or the international. About 40% of our dues goes to pay legal fees to the Seham law firm.Maybe American would do better, only you guys can answer that question.

737, why is it that you have not been active in the union?

 

[B737 driver]

737, why is it that you have not been active in the union?

Was a steward for almost 8 years with the Teamsters when they were at SWA, got AMFA in, just go to the union meetings, lost interest as being a rep, you did disillusioned after awhile , when you realize not much has changed. But on a good note the dues are cheaper, but the legal fees are way to high.

 

[Vortilon]

Give it another shot, you may have the numbers, I am just saying we have AMFA really the first full section 6 ,we have done, can't get the company to move, much.You guys complain about your union doing conventions, or the international. About 40% of our dues goes to pay legal fees to the Seham law firm.Maybe American would do better, only you guys can answer that question.

Well, at least you can see where the money is going. Over on our side, the money disappears into the AFL/CIO black hole. There is so much waste, and spending on totally unrelated issues that most of the members could care less about. Not to mention the legions of overpaid, ineffective, slugs in the organization. If paying your legal team is your biggest problem, you're not doing too bad. I can honestly say that during negotiations, I really don't trust my union, or the company, and for good reason. At least on your side there is transparency during negotiations. Couple that with the fact that your benefits package, and profit sharing is pretty much second to none. Your group is not too far behind - as far as base pay either. You have the luxury of not being stuck in the suck like us AMTs at LAA. Which is not to say - that dealing with negotiations for the amount of time your group has been at it, isn't frustrating. You've been at it this long, why tap out now? Hang tough!

 

[B737 driver]

Well, at least you can see where the money is going. Over on our side, the money disappears into the AFL/CIO black hole. There is so much waste, and spending on totally unrelated issues that most of the members could care less about. Not to mention the legions of overpaid, ineffective, slugs in the organization. If paying your legal team is your biggest problem, you're not doing too bad. I can honestly say that during negotiations, I really don't trust my union, or the company, and for good reason. At least on your side there is transparency during negotiations. Couple that with the fact that your benefits package, and profit sharing is pretty much second to none. Your group is not too far behind - as far as base pay either. You have the luxury of not being stuck in the suck like us AMTs at LAA. Which is not to say - that dealing with negotiations for the amount of time your group has been at it, isn't frustrating. You've been at it this long, why tap out now? Hang tough!

Our profit sharing has nothing to do with our contract, that's what the company decides. Our 401k match does. The only thing we have on you is our overtime language. Our health care our contract just says they will provide health care. You guys, have more work always have. We have an Engine shop in Dallas, but to me an Engine shop is overhaul, test cell the whole nine yards. Ours is Fan blades, and other stuff, G.E. Overhauls our engines. Most of our contract language is Teamsters negotiated language that AMFA took over in 2003.I watched under AMFA give away overhaul work in exchange for wages and gain a 3rd and 4 th C check line for Dallas, because that is where the majority of votes are.Now we will sit at 2012 wages until we give in and vote on something. Some people on this forum are perfectly content, so they claim to wait another 5 years, a total of 10 years for a new contract, and see nothing wrong with that. Basically our negotiating team was giving language away for money, asked for even more and the company balked.I have come to the conclusion that with this group we will be on ice, because the company doesn't fear us, and everyone that wants overtime gets drunk on it. The maintenance footprint of this company will change regardless of what Union we have. So we either get with the program , and get the best deal we can and move on, or we sit. If you guys at American think AMFA can get you a better deal, and you can control your destiny better, I say to you get the cards, get them in and go for it.

 

[Vortilon]

Our profit sharing has nothing to do with our contract, that's what the company decides. Our 401k match does. The only thing we have on you is our overtime language. Our health care our contract just says they will provide health care. You guys, have more work always have. We have an Engine shop in Dallas, but to me an Engine shop is overhaul, test cell the whole nine yards. Ours is Fan blades, and other stuff, G.E. Overhauls our engines. Most of our contract language is Teamsters negotiated language that AMFA took over in 2003.I watched under AMFA give away overhaul work in exchange for wages and gain a 3rd and 4 th C check line for Dallas, because that is where the majority of votes are.Now we will sit at 2012 wages until we give in and vote on something. Some people on this forum are perfectly content, so they claim to wait another 5 years, a total of 10 years for a new contract, and see nothing wrong with that. Basically our negotiating team was giving language away for money, asked for even more and the company balked.I have come to the conclusion that with this group we will be on ice, because the company doesn't fear us, and everyone that wants overtime gets drunk on it. The maintenance footprint of this company will change regardless of what Union we have. So we either get with the program , and get the best deal we can and move on, or we sit. If you guys at American think AMFA can get you a better deal, and you can control your destiny better, I say to you get the cards, get them in and go for it.

Your negotiators are representing the membership's request of getting more work in-house.

 

[B737 driver]

Your negotiators are representing the membership's request of getting more work in-house.

That's like closing the barn door after the horse escaped.

 

[conehead777]

That's like closing the barn door after the horse escaped.

You can thank the teamsters for the barn door being open

 

[B737 driver]

You can thank the teamsters for the barn door being open

Not really they have been kicked out since 2003, 14 years ago AMFA is driving the boat, sometimes you think something is an improvement, and you realize that they (unions) are pretty much the same a business to get you a pay scale and work rules.

 

[swamt]

You can thank the teamsters for the barn door being open

Isn't that the truth. At least AMFA has brought in 2 heavy lines and 2 C-checks, some back shop maint. and even some other lines of maint at other stations. The 4th line was the most recent that the union also had to sue for and won the suit. Even after the company agreed to the 4th line they still tried not to bring it in and then totally refused to bring it in. At least AMFA knows how to fight for more work when the teamsters just simply agreed with the company and told all the membership, "they can do it per the contract brother" and it was their contracts. But your right, the teamsters started this whole outsourcing game at SWA by allowing the 75-80% outsourcing from the very beginning. It is so hard to maint. to come back in house, it's like almost impossible we all know that, and AMFA has been working very hard and at least trying. So far, in say, what, 13-14 years here they have doubled the heavy maint lines in Dallas (from 2-4) added back in house several C check lines that were being outsourced before, added more and more back shop work in maint cities, even had outsource position occupied by a union official and not company. It is night and day difference from the teamsters 30 years here and AMFA's 14. The teamsters were only successful at adding one line of maint while they were here.
To add a little to your barn door comment. AMFA has been and is still working at closing that barn door the teamsters left open and flopping in the wind. It was the teamsters language that allowed the company to go international the first and second time. First in Canada, then to El Salvador. AMFA fought and brought the Canada maint back to the states. AMFA also fought for the El Salvador maint to stay within the borders, the teamsters language was no help, so AMFA, after taking over the contract of teamsters language, was successful in getting a bunch of rules to follow, as well as restrictions in place and newly added language that the company must get permission from the union to outsource any more internationally period, and also was successful in adding the 4th line to Dallas's heavy maint. They are currently trying to get a 5th line of maint added in order to show some good faith nego. at the table but the company is not willing to move. All of this is one of the biggest reasons to go with AMFA or a mechanic classification union rather than the industrial unions, huge difference guys. With what you guys have at AA is the majority are fleet and other non class groups in your contract, you guys really need to get those non classifications out of your contract. This way they are NOT voting on your issues and you guys are not voting on their issues and that way the company cannot just focus on one group to help them pass a contract.
I know you know all of this conehead, but sometimes when newbies come on or some time has past it just deserves to be repeated to remind all how it really was here back in the teamster days. I cannot speak from first hand experience about the TWU or the IAM but I can tell you from what I read that they too have agreed to outsource a lot more than they once did back in the old days, and they are now just as bad as the teamsters if not worse by not allowing the membership's to vote on issues that really affect them big time, even contracts. Final word, I would take AMFA (or any mechanics only class union) anytime over any of the industrial unions hands down, it's a no brainer. You always get your few teamster lovers who are still just heartbroken over them getting fired. But most of those are people that were in it for themselves and NOT the membership as a whole.

 

[B737 driver]

Isn't that the truth. At least AMFA has brought in 2 heavy lines and 2 C-checks, some back shop maint. and even some other lines of maint at other stations. The 4th line was the most recent that the union also had to sue for and won the suit. Even after the company agreed to the 4th line they still tried not to bring it in and then totally refused to bring it in. At least AMFA knows how to fight for more work when the teamsters just simply agreed with the company and told all the membership, "they can do it per the contract brother" and it was their contracts. But your right, the teamsters started this whole outsourcing game at SWA by allowing the 75-80% outsourcing from the very beginning. It is so hard to maint. to come back in house, it's like almost impossible we all know that, and AMFA has been working very hard and at least trying. So far, in say, what, 13-14 years here they have doubled the heavy maint lines in Dallas (from 2-4) added back in house several C check lines that were being outsourced before, added more and more back shop work in maint cities, even had outsource position occupied by a union official and not company. It is night and day difference from the teamsters 30 years here and AMFA's 14. The teamsters were only successful at adding one line of maint while they were here.
To add a little to your barn door comment. AMFA has been and is still working at closing that barn door the teamsters left open and flopping in the wind. It was the teamsters language that allowed the company to go international the first and second time. First in Canada, then to El Salvador. AMFA fought and brought the Canada maint back to the states. AMFA also fought for the El Salvador maint to stay within the borders, the teamsters language was no help, so AMFA, after taking over the contract of teamsters language, was successful in getting a bunch of rules to follow, as well as restrictions in place and newly added language that the company must get permission from the union to outsource any more internationally period, and also was successful in adding the 4th line to Dallas's heavy maint. They are currently trying to get a 5th line of maint added in order to show some good faith nego. at the table but the company is not willing to move. All of this is one of the biggest reasons to go with AMFA or a mechanic classification union rather than the industrial unions, huge difference guys. With what you guys have at AA is the majority are fleet and other non class groups in your contract, you guys really need to get those non classifications out of your contract. This way they are NOT voting on your issues and you guys are not voting on their issues and that way the company cannot just focus on one group to help them pass a contract.
I know you know all of this conehead, but sometimes when newbies come on or some time has past it just deserves to be repeated to remind all how it really was here back in the teamster days. I cannot speak from first hand experience about the TWU or the IAM but I can tell you from what I read that they too have agreed to outsource a lot more than they once did back in the old days, and they are now just as bad as the teamsters if not worse by not allowing the membership's to vote on issues that really affect them big time, even contracts. Final word, I would take AMFA (or any mechanics only class union) anytime over any of the industrial unions hands down, it's a no brainer. You always get your few teamster lovers who are still just heartbroken over them getting fired. But most of those are people that were in it for themselves and NOT the membership as a whole.

Sure a lot if explanation, must be for the American guys benefit, because we sure aren't reaching a deal anytime soon, but you know that. Now we have a new lawsuit filed over ETOPS when we have no ETOPS language in our contract. More money and time wasted . Tell me Swamt when did we vote on that or discuss that, maybe at our Road shows, not. Still waiting on mine, but keep being their Cheerleaders, you and Hackman.