AMFA versues industrial unions all mechanics all airlines

[I'll have another]

I am not guessing whether you ( B737 ) driver and I'll Have Another are mechanics but you already have people on here wondering. Both of speak as if you have a lot of time in Industrial Unions promoting those agenda's. I find it amusing that both of you only joined this forum in July 2017, On a very Rare occasion, I have been wrong.

I've been working on airplanes since 1976 started in the military. Been in industrial and amfa. Been at swa 20 years.

 

[B737 driver]

Knock Knock this is reality speaking, did you not read my post? We had the cards, we only needed one week and our total amount of cards needed would drop by 250. We had the lists you spoke of, we had obituary's to prove the AMT was deceased!
We had retirement flyers that the company put out when they sponsored a retirement party at work for an AMT. Why you ask?
Because years before we submitted a request for representation with AMFA, and the company submitted their list (months later I might add) with duplicate names, deceased employees & retired employees. Getting two government agencies together to help write these wrongs when the administration does not want them to is impossible. It was up to us to prove the list was wrong, the duplicates were easy enough but the others were not, I believe our request was just timed out. That is the reason we wanted to wait, we needed the buffer, nobody in our camp would have even for a second thought the company would stoop that low as to submit their list hours after the Teamsters (which meant we needed are actual physical cards in Washington DC by closing time that day). Any advice for us now smart guy? I cant make this s--t up.

That gives you even more motivation to try again, or do you not think you can get enough IAM/TWU aboard. Heck Regan lost the Republican nomination in 1976, and came back to become President in 1980. If people are as,mad as you claim they are, you should be to change unions.

 

[Vortilon]

Same here, have know idea of amfa's political leanings. Most people don't vote or have any interest in the union. Sad but true. I usually have know idea about who the people are running for office are about except maybe a brief posting about themselves. Amfa is not what it was cracked up to be.

Great, another IBT troll.

 

[Vortilon]

Amfa is not a craft union like it boast. Appearance techs(cleaners), the vast majority of this work is outsourced. Most of the outsourced work is done by folks that can't speak English. Yet, these are the ones that do the security sweeps of the aircraft. Go figure that one! Observers, democracy, transparent, how's that working out. Maintenance control, training instructors were added to our contract without a vote. These are very small groups that have never had a union. To this day 90% of the mechanics contract is teamsters language. And I guarantee you 90% don't want that language changed.

Not a craft union? Well, why do you suppose that is? Both the company and the union stand to gain by putting political pressure on the organization that determines who should be included in our class and craft - the NMB. At least it is a majority AMT union. AMFA doesn't waste time or money - on political issues that have nothing to do with securing us a better contract like the TWU or IAM!

 

[Vortilon]

If I recall, united gave amfa a go for a little while. What happened?

Here's why:
Why It Happened
The restructuring of the aviation industry during the last decade is ongoing. The current economic reality — $117 barrel of oil, outsourcing, stagnant wages, high health care costs — will lead to new demands by UAL and other carriers to undermine the wages and benefits of aircraft technicians and other aviation employees.

In this context, our members’ high turnout and their rejection of AMFA as the bargaining representative resulted from several factors. The first, in our view, is the context in which AMFA took over in 2003. AMFA operated in an environment of bankruptcy-imposed concessions just prior to winning certification. Soon after it suffered a second round of bankruptcy wage and work rule concessions, followed by more layoffs.

This environment triggered fear, anger and frustration within the ranks. Members felt overwhelmed by the forces arrayed against them: United Airlines, the corporate-biased bankruptcy law, the courts, and an anti-worker administration in Washington D.C. Many decided that we needed an equally powerful agent to counteract the corporate/government juggernaut. They willingly overlooked IBT’s anti-democratic operations and long history of corruption while they bought into the myth of the Teamsters as a big and powerful protector.

Bankruptcy and Concessions
UAL entered Chapter 11 bankruptcy on December 9, 2002. On January 10, 2003, the bankruptcy judge mandated a temporary wage reduction of 14%. On April 29, a six-year concessionary agreement was ratified with annual cuts of $340 million. By May the Indianapolis and Oakland maintenance bases were closed, leading to thousands of layoffs.

That was round one of the Chapter 11 process, just before AMFA came on board. A second round began in November 2004 resulting in more concessions in 2005. All five UAL pension plans were terminated, including the plan for mechanic and related employees. The pension blow was pre-arranged by UAL, imposed by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC), and signed off by the bankruptcy court.

UAL languished in bankruptcy for nearly 38 months — the longest in aviation history — finally exiting on February 1, 2006.

The IBT drive to replace AMFA began in 2006. The turmoil in the industry, however, put the issue of maintenance restructuring on the table. Would UAL sell the San Francisco Base? Would that division become a stand-alone Maintenance Repair and Overhaul (MRO) facility—separate from the main airline? AMFA still hadn’t negotiated its first full collective bargaining agreement.

 

[I'll have another]

Ok all that is in the past. You think amfa is the answer then call the national director. You can call me a smart guy a troll whatever makes you feel good. I'm encouraging you to try again. If amfa works for you go for it. At least email the director. His name is Bret. He'll answer you.

 

[B737 driver]

Ok all that is in the past. You think amfa is the answer then call the national director. You can call me a smart guy a troll whatever makes you feel good. I'm encouraging you to try again. If amfa works for you go for it. At least email the director. His name is Bret. He'll answer you.

American picking AMFA will come when they really want to get rid of their Association, back in our neck of the woods, we need some changes in the negotiating committee. If that doesn't work, then maybe we need to think of changing representation, but that will be whatever the membership decides.

 

[swamt]

Here's why:
Why It Happened
The restructuring of the aviation industry during the last decade is ongoing. The current economic reality — $117 barrel of oil, outsourcing, stagnant wages, high health care costs — will lead to new demands by UAL and other carriers to undermine the wages and benefits of aircraft technicians and other aviation employees.

In this context, our members’ high turnout and their rejection of AMFA as the bargaining representative resulted from several factors. The first, in our view, is the context in which AMFA took over in 2003. AMFA operated in an environment of bankruptcy-imposed concessions just prior to winning certification. Soon after it suffered a second round of bankruptcy wage and work rule concessions, followed by more layoffs.

This environment triggered fear, anger and frustration within the ranks. Members felt overwhelmed by the forces arrayed against them: United Airlines, the corporate-biased bankruptcy law, the courts, and an anti-worker administration in Washington D.C. Many decided that we needed an equally powerful agent to counteract the corporate/government juggernaut. They willingly overlooked IBT’s anti-democratic operations and long history of corruption while they bought into the myth of the Teamsters as a big and powerful protector.

Bankruptcy and Concessions
UAL entered Chapter 11 bankruptcy on December 9, 2002. On January 10, 2003, the bankruptcy judge mandated a temporary wage reduction of 14%. On April 29, a six-year concessionary agreement was ratified with annual cuts of $340 million. By May the Indianapolis and Oakland maintenance bases were closed, leading to thousands of layoffs.

That was round one of the Chapter 11 process, just before AMFA came on board. A second round began in November 2004 resulting in more concessions in 2005. All five UAL pension plans were terminated, including the plan for mechanic and related employees. The pension blow was pre-arranged by UAL, imposed by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation (PBGC), and signed off by the bankruptcy court.

UAL languished in bankruptcy for nearly 38 months — the longest in aviation history — finally exiting on February 1, 2006.

The IBT drive to replace AMFA began in 2006. The turmoil in the industry, however, put the issue of maintenance restructuring on the table. Would UAL sell the San Francisco Base? Would that division become a stand-alone Maintenance Repair and Overhaul (MRO) facility—separate from the main airline? AMFA still hadn’t negotiated its first full collective bargaining agreement.

And I believe these guys were both represented by the teamsters, during the merger process as well, correct?

 

[B737 driver]

Ok all that is in the past. You think amfa is the answer then call the national director. You can call me a smart guy a troll whatever makes you feel good. I'm encouraging you to try again. If amfa works for you go for it. At least email the director. His name is Bret. He'll answer you.

I was sitting at work today thinking which is better AMFA or the industrial unions. I think results should be the judge, there are people at SWA that love AMFA and others that don't. We are going into year six no contract. There are people at American that like the Association and others hate it. So let's see which one gets a contract first, and who gets the second one and see who has the most improvements and which union gave up the most language. We won't just look at pay rates. That should answer the question which union is better AMFA or the industrial unions, and how long it took to get a contract.

 

[Buck]

I was sitting at work today thinking which is better AMFA or the industrial unions. I think results should be the judge, there are people at SWA that love AMFA and others that don't. We are going into year six no contract. There are people at American that like the Association and others hate it. So let's see which one gets a contract first, and who gets the second one and see who has the most improvements and which union gave up the most language. We won't just look at pay rates. That should answer the question which union is better AMFA or the industrial unions, and how long it took to get a contract.

In my first class of Algerbra my instructor stated that Algerbra would teach us the difference between Apples and Oranges.
AMFA and the Industrial Unions are Apples and Oranges. How many Fleet Service Clerks are represented by AMFA?
How many Industrial Unions only represent A&P Mechanics?

 

[B737 driver]

In my first class of Algerbra my instructor stated that Algerbra would teach us the difference between Apples and Oranges.
AMFA and the Industrial Unions are Apples and Oranges. How many Fleet Service Clerks are represented by AMFA?
How many Industrial Unions only represent A&P Mechanics?

Your Union is only as good as your members or who is running it, don't fall for the hype we only represent mechanics, look at the history, and what they give up. Doesn't matter what name is on the door, just because it is AMFA doesn't mean it is the magic bullet.

 

[Vortilon]

Your Union is only as good as your members or who is running it, don't fall for the hype we only represent mechanics, look at the history, and what they give up. Doesn't matter what name is on the door, just because it is AMFA doesn't mean it is the magic bullet.

You know, that old chestnut about a union only being "as good as the membership" doesn't tell the whole story. First of all, I don't know anybody that likes the "Association" of the IAM & TWU. Further, we were prevented from even voting on this abomination known as the Association - AMFA wouldn't have done that. There is no simple process of voting out union leadership with the TWU. The goal is to make it to the International's payroll - at any cost. I'm only going by my experience with this organization going on 32 years. If you're a baggage handler, or a flight dispatcher, or Sim Tech - chances are, you are just fine with the TWU. On the other hand, if you're an AMT represented by the TWU; chances are, you want a change to AMFA. Trust me, that strength in numbers crap hasn't worked in my time with the firm.

 

[B737 driver]

You know, that old chestnut about a union only being "as good as the membership" doesn't tell the whole story. First of all, I don't know anybody that likes the "Association" of the IAM & TWU. Further, we were prevented from even voting on this abomination known as the Association - AMFA wouldn't have done that. There is no simple process of voting out union leadership with the TWU. The goal is to make it to the International's payroll - at any cost. I'm only going by my experience with this organization going on 32 years. If you're a baggage handler, or a flight dispatcher, or Sim Tech - chances are, you are just fine with the TWU. On the other hand, if you're an AMT represented by the TWU; chances are, you want a change to AMFA. Trust me, that strength in numbers crap hasn't worked in my time with the firm.

So what you are saying is if you guys want AMFA, the mechanics alone won't get it done, or do you have enough numbers to do it?

 

[Buck]

So what you are saying is if you guys want AMFA, the mechanics alone won't get it done, or do you have enough numbers to do it?

The NMB ( National Mediation Board ) also has the sayso in what related means. If the TWU as in the past and the IAM most likely somewhat similar, can bring leverage to the company and or the NMB etal, thru politcal action and the results could be disastrous for the Licensed Mechanic.

 

[conehead777]

So what you are saying is if you guys want AMFA, the mechanics alone won't get it done, or do you have enough numbers to do it?

When dead people were on the roster giving to the nmb so we did not have enough cards and the nmb sided against us.