Amfa...not For Anymore!

[Hopeful]

I have seen the light. I received an AMFA card in the mail today, and I tore it up.

AMFA's all talk and no action at UAL is the reason I no longer support them. They should have walked off the job as soon as the judge ruled on the pensions. And now they have the gall to return a T/A, which although is not as bad as the TWU concession debacle, and they have changed their tough talk to submission.

Now, I am in no way saying I am happy with the TWU. They are worthless.

But now with AMFA not striking at UAL, they have shown me they talk a good game but they can't play worth a s###!

Count me as a former AMFA supporter!

 

[Bob Owens]

I have seen the light. I received an AMFA card in the mail today, and I tore it up.

AMFA's all talk and no action at UAL is the reason I no longer support them. They should have walked off the job as soon as the judge ruled on the pensions. And now they have the gall to return a T/A, which although is not as bad as the TWU concession debacle, and they have changed their tough talk to submission.

Now, I am in no way saying I am happy with the TWU. They are worthless.

But now with AMFA not striking at UAL, they have shown me they talk a good game but they can't play worth a s###!

Count me as a former AMFA supporter!

[post="270589"][/post]​

Well you have a lot of nerve pointing the finger at others.

Why didnt you walk off the job when the TWU helped AA take away 25% of your pay?

Are you even on hand pay?

Look at the pension numbers. It comes out to less than 3% of your pay. In fact the lost holidays alone cover the pension contribution the company makes, by more than double.

Look at the UAL proposal, its the one that you have been working for for over two years already. The only difference is the pension, and the only reason why UAL is asking for what they are asking for is because AA was able to reduce their costs by 25% as you go out there and do your best to make the AA plan pay off for them.

We did not give our industry leading concessions under the duress of BK either, we did it under the threat of BK.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I have seen the light. I received an AMFA card in the mail today, and I tore it up.

AMFA's all talk and no action at UAL is the reason I no longer support them. They should have walked off the job as soon as the judge ruled on the pensions. And now they have the gall to return a T/A, which although is not as bad as the TWU concession debacle, and they have changed their tough talk to submission.

Now, I am in no way saying I am happy with the TWU. They are worthless.

But now with AMFA not striking at UAL, they have shown me they talk a good game but they can't play worth a s###!

Count me as a former AMFA supporter!

[post="270589"][/post]​

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hopeful,

(Knowing that I've supported you guys for what seems to be forever),

I will "give you", that I was disappointed that Delle did'nt tell UA to "take a hike, when they came to "negotiate" a "new" contract, when AMFA already had a contract in place.

The only reason UA came "hat in hand", was to circumvent the whole process, BEFORE they got the judge to throw out ALL the contracts.

Hopeful,
I'm sure you'll take a lot of grief over this, but your not "entirely wrong" IMHO.

Good luck,

NH/BB's

 

[local 12 proud]

TWU is not the answer and never will be for the CRAFT & CLASS, im dissapointed that AMFA has endorsed this but they must in good faith, that does not mean the membership will pass it, though my gut tells me it will! START RETRAINING FELLOWS, THIS INDUSTRY IS IN THE TOILET ALONG WITH YOUR A&P.

 

[Buck]

TWU is not the answer and never will be for the CRAFT & CLASS, im dissapointed that AMFA has endorsed this but they must in good faith, that does not mean the membership will pass it, though my gut tells me it will! START RETRAINING FELLOWS, THIS INDUSTRY IS IN THE TOILET ALONG WITH YOUR A&P.

[post="270615"][/post]​

Why not give the members of AMFA at UAL the chance to vote on this TA?

 

[Bob Owens]

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Hopeful,

(Knowing that I've supported you guys for what seems to be forever),

I will "give you", that I was disappointed that Delle did'nt tell UA to "take a hike, when they came to "negotiate" a "new" contract, when AMFA already had a contract in place.

The only reason UA came "hat in hand", was to circumvent the whole process, BEFORE they got the judge to throw out ALL the contracts.

Hopeful,
I'm sure you'll take a lot of grief over this, but your not "entirely wrong" IMHO.

Good luck,

NH/BB's

[post="270610"][/post]​

I will be dissapointed if the guys at UAL accept this. However, who are we to say anything?

In 2001 the mechanics at UAL voted NO on the TA. The President imposed a PEB on the mechanics.

In 2001 the Mechanics at AA voted yes on their contract.

In 2002 when UAL said give us 8% back or we will go BK, the mechanics at UAL took a stand. We have a contract. They saw that over at USAIR pre-BK concessions meant nothing but lowering the starting point for more concessions in BK. Six months later when AA said give us 25% or we will fike BK we voted yes. We gave the company more concessions outside of BK than any company was able to get in BK.

Within less than a year after going BK the UAL mechanics and related ousted the IAM for their lack of leadership.

Two years later and the TWU is still colecting dues from us. In fact the year that we took the paycuts top TWU officials gave themselves an average 10% increase in pay! Most of our coworkers still allow the company to take our money, put their name on it and give it to the TWU. Not only does the TWU not have to do anything for us but they dont even have to come to us for our money. Why do they still pay through Check off? "Because its too much of a hassle to write out another check every month". Yea, too much of a hassle but then the same people will criticize others for not jumping onto picket lines in haste. If writing a check every month or two is too much to ask then what would it be to get them to walk off the job and walk a picket line?

Over the last six months the AMFA has resisted the companys attempts to get more concessions. The TWU has never resisted concessions from AA.

The AMFA has blasted UALs management.

The TWU praises AA management, and why wouldnt they, after all Jim Little is from managememt and the company gives the union $3.1 million a year on top of the dues they collect from the employees and still pays International officers.

The fact is that at every turn we have let our brothers from UAL down. We have done so for twenty years. From R&D, OSMs, Medical Benifits, Vacation accrual, straight time pay for training, all things that the TWU gave up to AA years ago that UAL could only get in BK, to all the things we gave back outside of BK in 2003, we have been undercutting our brothers at UAL. They take a stand, and we fold.

To come out now, before the vote is even taken and say that "I wont support AMFA" ("because the guys at UAL, who have been carrying us for years, didnt vote down UALs proposal and take a stand that I didnt take") is childish and selfish. The goal to get for AMFA is to unite all the aircraft mechanics in one union so we can be in a position of strength. Who are we to expect the guys from UAL to take a stand when we all know that if they do, and are successful, that in 2006 when the openers start that we will simply lower the bar once again with the TWU. The UAL guys would have every right to say that they will step back this time and at least see if we have enough fight to oust the TWU and for once tell AA to pound salt as far as concessions go. Then when they do take a stand they will know that their brothers at AA will not be working overtime while they are picketing.

 

[Buck]

I will be dissapointed if the guys at UAL accept this. However, who are we to say anything?

In 2001 the mechanics at UAL voted NO on the TA. The President imposed a PEB on the mechanics.

In 2001 the Mechanics at AA voted yes on their contract.

In 2002 when UAL said give us 8% back or we will go BK, the mechanics at UAL took a stand. We have a contract. They saw that over at USAIR pre-BK concessions meant nothing but lowering the starting point for more concessions in BK. Six months later when AA said give us 25% or we will fike BK we voted yes. We gave the company more concessions outside of BK than any company was able to get in BK.

Within less than a year after going BK the UAL mechanics and related ousted the IAM for their lack of leadership.

Two years later and the TWU is still colecting dues from us. In fact the year that we took the paycuts top TWU officials gave themselves an average 10% increase in pay! Most of our coworkers still allow the company to take our money, put their name on it and give it to the TWU. Not only does the TWU not have to do anything for us but they dont even have to come to us for our money. Why do they still pay through Check off? "Because its too much of a hassle to write out another check every month". Yea, too much of a hassle but then the same people will criticize others for not jumping onto picket lines in haste. If writing a check every month or two is too much to ask then what would it be to get them to walk off the job and walk a picket line?

Over the last six months the AMFA has resisted the companys attempts to get more concessions. The TWU has never resisted concessions from AA.

The AMFA has blasted UALs management.

The TWU praises AA management, and why wouldnt they, after all Jim Little is from managememt and the company gives the union $3.1 million a year on top of the dues they collect from the employees and still pays International officers.

The fact is that at every turn we have let our brothers from UAL down. We have done so for twenty years. From R&D, OSMs, Medical Benifits, Vacation accrual, straight time pay for training, all things that the TWU gave up to AA years ago that UAL could only get in BK, to all the things we gave back outside of BK in 2003, we have been undercutting our brothers at UAL. They take a stand, and we fold.

To come out now, before the vote is even taken and say that "I wont support AMFA" ("because the guys at UAL, who have been carrying us for years, didnt vote down UALs proposal and take a stand that I didnt take") is childish and selfish. The goal to get for AMFA is to unite all the aircraft mechanics in one union so we can be in a position of strength. Who are we to expect the guys from UAL to take a stand when we all know that if they do, and are successful, that in 2006 when the openers start that we will simply lower the bar once again with the TWU. The UAL guys would have every right to say that they will step back this time and at least see if we have enough fight to oust the TWU and for once tell AA to pound salt as far as concessions go. Then when they do take a stand they will know that their brothers at AA will not be working overtime while they are picketing.

[post="270626"][/post]​

The fact is that at every turn we have let our brothers from UAL down. We have done so for twenty years.

It is not just the brothers at UAL I am thinking about, it is all of the brothers in the airline industry. That is the problem at AA-TWU-TUL, it is all about the current issue that affects them. The members, at least at TUL could care less about the brothers at other carriers or even cities.

 

[Hopeful]

HAHAHAHAHAHHA!


YOU GUYS ARE SO FRIGGIN GULLIBLE!


Do you really think I would ever NOT want to get rid of the TWU?


I will be willing to get rid of the TWU at any cost!



This is too funny the way you guys reacted to my bogus post!



ROFLMAO!

 

[Bob Owens]

HAHAHAHAHAHHA!
YOU GUYS ARE SO FRIGGIN GULLIBLE!
Do you really think I would ever NOT want to get rid of the TWU?
I will be willing to get rid of the TWU at any cost!
This is too funny the way you guys reacted to my bogus post!
ROFLMAO!

[post="270639"][/post]​

OK. But I'm sure that you are not the only one who has reacted this way. In fact one guy on nights pretty much took the same position.

The fact is that our goal to get AMFA has to be more than "Lets go for whover did the best thing the last". Its not just how AMFA performs at UAL or SWA but rather the fact that the structure of unionism within this industry is fundamentally flawed. It is completely ineffective and since it is so highly competative of an industry the fix must be applied across the board.

We have to unite the profession across the entire industry in order to fix it. If AA stays with the TWU the TWU will continue to undercut other unions. This reduces the ability of those workers to make gains. If we all belong to AMFA then the union has no incentive to give one airline a cost advantage over another airline. The way it is now, the TWU, with its unaccountable leadership has every reason to give AA the cost advantage it needs to grow. It needs a growing membership in order to fund its pension plans. Fighting for increased wages , benifits and even enforcing the contract is a costly process for a union, if the members have no redress its much better to partner up with the company even if it means less dues per member because what is lacked in quality can then be made up for in quantity.

 

[Hopeful]

Absolutely, everyone is impatient and wants to see AMFA at UAL make a stand!

Since we all know the TWU is incapapable of even muttering the word "strike",
we need to have another organization speak up for us!

 

[Hopeful]

By the way, my apologies for getting all your blood pressures up!

 

[1AA]

Just to make it simple folks, the way the BK judges make decisions today the working person has little chance on getting what he or she feels they deserve. So if AMFA negotiated a new contract it was done for a reason. Ask yourself if you would like the BK judge to impose a contract instead of the union and company trying to work out a deal that is better than what a BK judge would force on the working person? You take the better of both evils. Remember that UAL is under BK rules. The workers are always at a dissadvantage. The AMFA is trying to make a bad situation into one that is bearable considering the circumstances they are under. And if you think a strike is in the picture??
You know a judge will place a restraining order immediately to stop any job action.


On the other hand we at AA gave the house away out of BK. Just hope that AA does not go into BK. The UAL situation will smell like roses compared to what Jim Little and company will have in store for us if the situation arises.

 

[Buck]

Just to make it simple folks, the way the BK judges make decisions today the working person has little chance on getting what he or she feels they deserve. So if AMFA negotiated a new contract it was done for a reason. Ask yourself if you would like the BK judge to impose a contract instead of the union and company trying to work out a deal that is better than what a BK judge would force on the working person? You take the better of both evils. Remember that UAL is under BK rules. The workers are always at a dissadvantage. The AMFA is trying to make a bad situation into one that is bearable considering the circumstances they are under. And if you think a strike is in the picture??
You know a judge will place a restraining order immediately to stop any job action.
On the other hand we at AA gave the house away out of BK. Just hope that AA does not go into BK. The UAL situation will smell like roses compared to what Jim Little and company will have in store for us if the situation arises.

[post="270662"][/post]​

And the working union member is susposed to rely on the structure of the AFL-CIO to represent them. As in another thread, the question about what the AFL-CIO is doing has yet to be answered.

 

[AMFAMAN]

Fact is that this T/A is still at least 20 concessions shy of the AA/twuer. The only reason any other airlines are looking to gut the contracts is because the POS that we collectively as a union mebership accepted and later re-ratified by Little Jim. Now I can hope, wish, and pray for what United or NWA mechanics do in order to raise my standard of living, but I will not critique or advise them as long as I remain under this turd of a union that has single handily destroyed this profession over the past 23 years and continues today as the example of scab recruiting sorely displays.

 

[local 12 proud]

Why not give the members of AMFA at UAL the chance to vote on this TA?

[post="270622"][/post]​

Buck, rest assured Im on board with AMFA and the Mechanics at UAL and can only hope that a line has been drawn in the sand, but i fear that with only high senority mech's left they will try to hang on to what little they have left as opposed to starting over in their mid 40's or 50"s. I know i should not prejudge and i hope im wrong but i can only gauge this by what i see in TULSA and you can be sure we would be thrown under the bus here in this land of cowards!