American Pilot Antics

[Ken MacTiernan]

I disagree. My guess is that the "rule 32" is in response to all the sexual discrimination suits that are in the courts. AA does not want to be slapped with one and have no defense.

It amazes me how conspiracy theories just pop up like weeds in this place. Must be fun being as paranoid as some of you seem to be.

[post="266997"][/post]​

I agree with Garfield, I believe that AA created "Article 32" to cover it's behind. I remember right around the time when Clarence Thomas was being chosen for U.S. Supreme Justice and Anita Hill came forward with allegations of Thomas' actions the company changed.

At this time A/C Maintenance was directed to remove all "inappropriate" material from the cockpits. This "material" has been present in military and commercial aircraft well before I was born. At this time AA also had any "offending" material on work BBs, etc. removed. You know, cartoons and magazine pictures/headlines, that were direcred at a co-worker as a laugh or joke.

I also agree that AA was able to use this "Article 32" to create division between workers. Let's face it. Common sense seems to be a rare commodity these days. I believe that this "Article 32" is also BS when it is used for other than it was created for.

Former Moderator claims that using an alias is no protection against violating this rule. It comes down to professionalism and humor. Where is the line? This pilot seems to have a problem. I hope he gets help. But what this pilot did was also funny, (yes, sad too.). I feel for his family. But for someone to post the story and another person thinks that making cracks or sarcastic remarks is against company policy I say get a life.

Perhaps this "Article 32" would make an interesting thread? Humm.

 

[eolesen]

It comes down to professionalism and humor. Where is the line?

On this we agree. And yes, it's a reaction to stuff like Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill.

But that was also a wake up call to show that people obviously don't agree on where the line is.

But what this pilot did was also funny, (yes, sad too.).

What you think is a harmless remark may not be quite so harmless to someone standing next to you.

Last year, I saw a noose spray painted on a bathroom stall door.

Do you find that funny, too?.... I hope not. I didn't. The door was covered with paper until it could be repainted that afternoon. Was that an over-reaction?

---

There's no doubt that the person in the news article has some mental or emotional issues which drove his behavior.

Mocking his behavior also mocks the fact that he's got mental or emotional issues.

While that might not cross the lines of Rule 32 in some people's opinion, it's pretty damn close, which is why I suggest staying away from comments like that.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

On this we agree. And yes, it's a reaction to stuff like Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill.

But that was also a wake up call to show that people obviously don't agree on where the line is.
What you think is a harmless remark may not be quite so harmless to someone standing next to you.

Last year, I saw a noose spray painted on a bathroom stall door.

Do you find that funny, too?.... I hope not. I didn't. The door was covered with paper until it could be repainted that afternoon. Was that an over-reaction?

---

There's no doubt that the person in the news article has some mental or emotional issues which drove his behavior.

Mocking his behavior also mocks the fact that he's got mental or emotional issues.

While that might not cross the lines of Rule 32 in some people's opinion, it's pretty damn close, which is why I suggest staying away from comments like that.

[post="267346"][/post]​

FM, the "line" should be what a person would not want to be said or done to a person's mother, wife, or daughter. ( Or father, husband or son.)

But I also feel that the work place & society as a whole has become OVER sensitive to what should be common sense. We are all adults, (well, most of the time ), and we should know what you can say to whom. If a person is offended that person should be man/woman enough to take the "offending" person to the side and tell them they do not appreciate/like the remark, etc. However, for some mystic reason certain people use Article 32 as a weapon.

Your example of a noose is a perfect example of not knowing where the line is. Because the person who had drawn the noose has gone way past the line. But this was done by a coward so taking action against this person is unlikely to happen. And NO, I do not find a noose to be funny.

As for this pilot's assumed emotional/mental issues I hope he seeks/finds help. I do not think anyone wishes this pilot otherwise.

Humor can be found in many places and ways. Some think Andrew "Dice" Clay was funny and some think Bill Cosby is funny. Actually, I think Article 32 is funny because now when we joke with each other someone will say, "Hey, you hurt my feelings. That violates Article 32!", and people laugh. And laughing at work doesn't happen as often as it use to.

 

[eolesen]

FM, the "line" should be what a person would not want to be said or done to a person's mother, wife, or daughter. ( Or father, husband or son.)

[post="267376"][/post]​

Agreed. So, back to the topic...

Do you think it would be appropriate to be making the same jokes if it had been your spouse, parent, or child doing this on their front lawn?

He and his family are already humiliated. There's a good chance he's going to lose his FAA medical cert for a while.

Making jokes about it doesn't do anything but cause further humiliation.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Agreed. So, back to the topic...

Do you think it would be appropriate to be making the same jokes if it had been your spouse, parent, or child doing this on their front lawn?

He and his family are already humiliated. There's a good chance he's going to lose his FAA medical cert for a while.

Making jokes about it doesn't do anything but cause further humiliation.

[post="267381"][/post]​

fm, if you are asking me a direct question I will answer it directly. Yes, I think it would be funny if I had a brother that did this. I would also expect comments to be made. That's life. I would be by my brother's side every step of the way as well.

Have you noticed that the "cracks" made about this pilot have not included things like, "Hang the guy!" or "Fire his sorry a$$!"?

This pilot should lose his certs till corrective actions can be taken.

I would like to ask you what you thought about the Iraqi prison pictures. Just asking here, not baiting. Were they humiliating or funny?

 

[Winglet]

I would like to ask you what you thought about the Iraqi prison pictures. Just asking here, not baiting. Were they humiliating or funny?

[post="267429"][/post]​

Neither. The actions of the miscreants, including the commanding ANG General were counterproductive to interrogation and the general war effort. It was an inexcuseable breakdown in the command and leadership. Most of the prisoners were illegal combatants that had zero protection under the Geneva Convention. Indeed, after WWII, Nazi illegal combatant guerillas (Wolves) that were caught were rightfully executed.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

Most of the prisoners were illegal combatants that had zero protection under the Geneva Convention. .

[post="267434"][/post]​

It's only a side issue but many, if not most (or all), of them were common criminals.

 

[JDI]

I can't comment on the Rule 32 business since I'm not employed by AA. But ----- I will comment on the humor angle to it since I guess I may have been the first on this thread to go that route.

I don't think one can expect an incident like the one outlined here to go "unnoticed" and not commented on. Geez ----- I guess Hillary and Chelsea Clinton were humiliated when all of Bill's antics with Monica Lewinsky became public. In large part, though, it was the humor of the late-night comics and God-knows almost everyone else that sort of helped deal with the incongruities of the POTUS having an almost-inconceivable tryst with a 22-year old inter.

I don't know ----- if we lose our ability to respond with humor to an incident that has its funny side to it, particularly if it is because the interpretation of a rule is carried to that extreme, I think we are headed down a dark and slippery slope toward authoritarianism. Even Bush and Cheney can step up and make a joke or two at the Press Club.

Jeff I.