American Airlines To Delta Air Lines: Hats Off To You For Operational Excellence

[AANOTOK]

Agree Mike, many miserable people on here these days......

 

[Jester]

 
Sounds like PHX is full of Stepford wives.You've been brainwashed.
 
Love to have some PHX management transfer out to JFK.They'd get their asses handed to them.

I would love to have PHX Management transferred out to JFK too (and anywhere else for that matter).  The responsibilities and accountabilities for a Lead are far higher on the US side vs. AA with their Crew Chiefs based upon my conversations with AA guys now in PHX.  A Crew Chief is a highly coveted position mostly with senior people while in PHX, people with less than 1 year become team lead qualified and full-time lead after 5 years are commonplace, because relatively few people want the job.
 
We had one Lead who didn't seriously take his responsibilities to met the plane upon arrival, and after several warnings he was terminated.  Word around the campfire is that he has been begging the union to fight and get his job back as the best employment he has been offered on the outside was telemarketing at less than $10/hour.  What you call "Stepford Wives" ignores the economic reality of people in fear of losing their job and Management just itching to send someone packing.

 

[Roadking5560]

I think everyone would be in agreement that you have to do your job.  You work smart and safe.  If you need an additional person to do the job safely and on-time ask for it, in front of others so that when things go south you have a confirmation of your request. 

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

  What you call "Stepford Wives" ignores the economic reality of people in fear of losing their job and Management just itching to send someone packing.

 
Is PHX not covered under the current CBA negotiated by the IAM? The way you make it sound, the company just walks around cashing people out en masse with nothing standing in their way.
 
AA CC's get their feet held to the fire plenty.At JFK we have an ample supply of Mickey Mouse CSM's who will sit on a gate and watch a flight go under due to manpower and instead of calling and getting help,they're taking notes for the 29F hearing they will convene before the shift is over.
 
I will not risk injury to myself or anyone on my crew to get a flight out on schedule by running around to "Get it done!" out of fear of being written up or to cover the consistent inability of management to staff properly.
 
At the end of the day, you bend a rule to get the trip out on time and management doesn't care,you bend a rule and wrinkle some aluminum management is going to make an example out of your ass, no matter how many times you've "Gotten it done" for them in the past.
 
You can't get banged out for working safely.
 

 

[topDawg]

It comes down to respect for doing what we do and many in management are not willing to extend that.

 agreed. A lot of management types want you to know they are the boss. Its a terrible way to lead a company. 
 

A lot of mgmt. is just as guilty of what we tend to accuse ourselves of. When we (labor) talk about working together, it usually means collaboration. A good leader gets that. A bad manager sees that as a weakness to try to exploit.

@Dawg: Give me 13.3's any day!

man they were the bust. Funny thing, company took them because of lack of productivity 
 

You are correct! I know a mechanic who works for DL.....We discuss how our respective workplaces operate often. He says he works way harder than a mechanic who works at AA and is expected to do more.....there is no working one aircraft and then off to laptop and tv land

I have no idea how it is on the line (changes from station to station) but in the hangar in Atlanta we don't really work "hard". We work, but I would remotely call it hard. For the most part if you get your plane out by the ready time no one is going to say anything to you.
 
I'm sure its a little different on the line when you have a ready time in 15 mintues v 7 days in the hangar. 

....The sad part is, there are those at AA who want DL wages and benefits and even profit sharing but want NO part of DL work rules.....It is up to AA management to change the culture...If they are going to continually mention they want to bring us to DL + whatever it is this month....Then they need to do their part and start managing like DL. A company can still profit WITH unions.

I agree with this completely. Me and you have talked about this before, I have long said your base maintenance needs to make big changes. Things like only 8 hours days, no 24/7 coverage. weekends off. Shutting down for holidays etc. 
That is all 1950s crap that does get people outsourced. AAR and TIMCO sure as hell aren't shutting down for the holidays. 
 
And the funny thing about base maintenance, at least at Delta, about the only depts. that have 24/7 coverage are the hangar depts. Even at that not all of our bays are 24/7. I would bet 99% of the back shops are 1st maybe 2nd shift only. Some have weekends some don't. 
 

The sad reality of human nature is this.....You can pay one employee $60 an hour and he will not give anything more......You can pay most employees that same $60 an hour and they will surprise the hell out of you.

Yep.

 

[DNTULSA]

Been there, seen that.  Some guys whine and won't work no matter what.

 

[AA-MRO.COM]

You are correct! I know a mechanic who works for DL.....We discuss how our respective workplaces operate often. He says he works way harder than a mechanic who works at AA and is expected to do more.....there is no working one aircraft and then off to laptop and tv land....The sad part is, there are those at AA who want DL wages and benefits and even profit sharing but want NO part of DL work rules.....It is up to AA management to change the culture...If they are going to continually mention they want to bring us to DL + whatever it is this month....Then they need to do their part and start managing like DL. A company can still profit WITH unions. 
The sad reality of human nature is this.....You can pay one employee $60 an hour and he will not give anything more......You can pay most employees that same $60 an hour and they will surprise the hell out of you.

That's a load of crap
Prior to 2003 we produced twice as much work as we do now. Not only were the aircraft older and in need of repair we got the majority of work done in half the time it takes today. BECAUSE THERE IS NO MORE INCENTIVE AND YEARS OF CONCESSIONS
You do the math....

 

[dfw gen]

That's a load of crap
Prior to 2003 we produced twice as much work as we do now. Not only were the aircraft older and in need of repair we got the majority of work done in half the time it takes today. BECAUSE THERE IS NO MORE INCENTIVE AND YEARS OF CONCESSIONS
You do the math....

Agreed 100%

 

[DallasConehead]

The AA system has lost a couple critical components, which was, you get the airplane done, I'll pay you 4 hours of OT and you don't have to punch the clock.  That was a major driver. There were many different variations of this. The other was penalty hours, get paid 1 hour OT and punch out 6 minutes late. Guys would jump through hoops for that one. Finally the Paid lunch. Work through your lunch, get 30 minutes of OT, that is starting to make a come back in the form of MP.
 
Anyway, this was how things got done, with money. The bean counters and HR got involved and that incentive is gone.
 
Also IAW, when the company decided everything was IAW and they weren't going to defend you but instead throw you under the bus to the feds or take their own disciplinary action for not following written procedures, most guys threw their hands up in the air and said screw it, no more judgement calls, follow the manual verbatim to the word. It doesn't matter how long it takes. Protect the people, the license and the job, in that order.
 
The company decided not to show any loyalty to the work force and in return the work force did the same back.  It doesn't matter what you pay, the genie is out of the bottle and can never be put back in.

 

[topDawg]

The AA system has lost a couple critical components, which was, you get the airplane done, I'll pay you 4 hours of OT and you don't have to punch the clock.  That was a major driver. There were many different variations of this. The other was penalty hours, get paid 1 hour OT and punch out 6 minutes late. Guys would jump through hoops for that one. Finally the Paid lunch. Work through your lunch, get 30 minutes of OT, that is starting to make a come back in the form of MP.
 
Anyway, this was how things got done, with money. The bean counters and HR got involved and that incentive is gone.
 
Also IAW, when the company decided everything was IAW and they weren't going to defend you but instead throw you under the bus to the feds or take their own disciplinary action for not following written procedures, most guys threw their hands up in the air and said screw it, no more judgement calls, follow the manual verbatim to the word. It doesn't matter how long it takes. Protect the people, the license and the job, in that order.
 
The company decided not to show any loyalty to the work force and in return the work force did the same back.  It doesn't matter what you pay, the genie is out of the bottle and can never be put back in.

I think you can always put it back in at least for the majority of the work force. 
 
I never thought Delta would survive during the Ron and Leo years, but we had a great CEO(who took cuts with us, along with the rest of management, during BK) and that is the stuff that really helped unite the company and the work force.
Parker has a chance to be a great CEO for you guys, the question is will he do it, and will your union get out of its own/his way......
 
JMO though.  We will see if he will sit down at the table and give you a fair (not full of concessions) JCBA, That will be a step in the right direction
 
but again, the IAM/TWU don't need to screw it up. (highly unlikely, IMO)  

 

[Roadking5560]

The AA system has lost a couple critical components, which was, you get the airplane done, I'll pay you 4 hours of OT and you don't have to punch the clock.  That was a major driver. There were many different variations of this. The other was penalty hours, get paid 1 hour OT and punch out 6 minutes late. Guys would jump through hoops for that one. Finally the Paid lunch. Work through your lunch, get 30 minutes of OT, that is starting to make a come back in the form of MP.
 
Anyway, this was how things got done, with money. The bean counters and HR got involved and that incentive is gone.
 
Also IAW, when the company decided everything was IAW and they weren't going to defend you but instead throw you under the bus to the feds or take their own disciplinary action for not following written procedures, most guys threw their hands up in the air and said screw it, no more judgement calls, follow the manual verbatim to the word. It doesn't matter how long it takes. Protect the people, the license and the job, in that order.
 
The company decided not to show any loyalty to the work force and in return the work force did the same back.  It doesn't matter what you pay, the genie is out of the bottle and can never be put back in.

Ah, the good old days.  Yes, a lot of work got done in a hurry.  We worked so hard on that engine change crew in DFW changing mostly MD-80 engines that I couldn't keep track of all those hours "in the bank".  With three up and hung in a shift, you could say we got pretty good at it.

 

[DallasConehead]

And now.. 2-3 shifts for one.

 

[AANOTOK]

And now.. 2-3 shifts for one.

Isn't that the "Union" way.

 

[dfw gen]

Isn't that the "Union" way.

No that comes from clueless, penny pinching management.