American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Tim Nelson]

AFL-CIO SCHEDULES AFA INTERFERENCE HEARING

The AFL-CIO, the largest labor federation in the United States, has scheduled a hearing on January 9th regarding the IAM's numerous complaints of AFA-CWA interference with the IAM Delta campaign.

In April, 2018, the IAM was awarded the exclusive right to organize Delta Flight Attendants by the AFL-CIO. The IAM was granted this award because it was found that the AFA-CWA not only did not stop the organizing being done in its name from 2015-2018, it, in fact, supported and encouraged such "grassroots" organizing efforts. These actions were found to create a "competition of unions," which was found to directly interfere with Delta Flight Attendants' efforts to form a union and violate AFL-CIO rules.

The dispute will be decided by a committee of representatives from three AFL-CIO affiliate unions and will be binding.

The IAM previously stated, the union is disappointed that the AFA-CWA would launch a campaign while this dispute is outstanding and it will continue its support of Delta Flight Attendants' efforts to unionize with the largest airline union in the world, the IAM.

Request your a-card here: www.iamdelta.net/acard

Why wont the iam support afa?
At Continental, the twu gave the ramp its best shot but then supported the iam. Then when Buschell and Reagan screwed up the continental campaign by scamming, the twu supported the ibt because the continental ramp would not vote for the iam after the scandal.

Why not support the afa if you are iam?
I mean imo the afa is awful but i cant figure out why the iam sabatoges the afa when they are suppose to be family.
Regards,

 

[Kev3188]

...and that 6 years of negotiations will be scrapped.

Since Pay, Scope, Retirement, and Medical are nowhere near being T/A'ed, that seems even more hollow than normal.

Do you think the delta ramp would be more interested in another big union or just stick with the iam perpetual campaign?
It seems logical to hold onto the iam if you just want to use a union as opposed to becoming union.

Tough to say. From this observer's perch, it seems to be on life support right now. The appetite for organizing is there; it just seems that the IAM isn't offering a compelling option to draw people in.

Why wont the iam support afa?
At Continental, the twu gave the ramp its best shot but then supported the iam. Then when Buschell and Reagan screwed up the continental campaign by scamming, the twu supported the ibt because the continental ramp would not vote for the iam after the scandal.

Why not support the afa if you are iam?
I mean imo the afa is awful but i cant figure out why the iam sabatoges the afa when they are suppose to be family.
Regards,

Scamming? Scandal? Do tell.

 

[swamt]

Get a clue I’ve seen more AMT’s leave for better paying jobs than anytime in my career and this includes many with more than 5 or 10 years seniority. And I love in particular the ones that were just hired and leave right out of orientation.
Steve Goeyvaerts aka Goey
SFO

Hey, welcome back Goey! Haven't heard from you for a while.

that's great...where are they going to?

to airlines with a lower ratio of AMTs per plane? if they are going to ua/dl/southwest, fleet there either earns more than me or equal to me.

my thought is assoc or amfa, the company is stingy..they don't want to compensate us.

He was talking about AMT's and you were referring to fleet mainly, however, I know I have seen 2 dozen or so folks leave AA for SWA. And yes the majority of them had 10 plus years at AA. Some even had 16-20 plus years. Your comment about the 7-9 year guys thinking they will just vote their jobs away (in a different post) is total BS and you know it. Just another scare tactic. No one will lose their job just because they sign a card or vote for another union, period. Hell, the TWU has done plenty of that over the decades without no change in the unions at all.

 

[swamt]

Ah. Great. So you guys don't have to worry about the $20M or a permanent Permanent Injunction. Then AMFA should just ignore all that legal mumbo-jumbo they're upset about.

I haven't worried about it from day one. Just more propaganda. More or less a sign the co is torn about going through 2 failure nego teams and had to bring someone in from the outside (who is also a mechanic at heart) to get it done. That is just embarrassing for the two nego teams that couldn't get it done for 6.5 years. And Kinder comes in and gets it done in one long 5 day session. Co. a little BH after that.

 

[V.O. Reason]

Since Pay, Scope, Retirement, and Medical are nowhere near being T/A'ed, that seems even more hollow than normal.



Tough to say. From this observer's perch, it seems to be on life support right now. The appetite for organizing is there; it just seems that the IAM isn't offering a compelling option to draw people in.



Scamming? Scandal? Do tell.

I for one don’t believe those items haven’t been T,A
I think they have and there are basically holding this up because of the court issue and the scope improvements

 

[swamt]

Weez, you still on gag? Are you making goofy statements about amfa like 700 is?
I see the iam spin doctor is now saying amfa members could get higher seniority and that 6 years of negotiations will be scrapped.

Weez, just because amfa is doing great with the raid, shouldnt mean that you go back in the gutter with 700 and his lies.
You may still get an iam gig since the ramp will still be association.

Did you meet up with Josh?

For anyone to claim AMFA will get them more seniority is just rhetoric and not true. As it has already been stated, if AMFA is brought in they will honor the arbitrators ruling on the seniority issue since the two unions TWU/IAM could not agree to it themselves with all the arguing over it they just threw their hands up, screwed the membership, and gave it to a 3rd party. So sad how quickly they gave it up too.
Now I know the amendable date was 4 years ago, but how long have they been at nego's? Is it really 6 or more like 5???
BTW timmy, it's not a raid. It's a grassroots effort and going extremely strong this time around. The "And Related" are much more educated this time around and the IAM is sick and tired too. They too finally see all the BS and mass dysfunctional and infighting with this asso. that was forced on everyone with NO vote. Time for change...

 

[swamt]

I for one don’t believe those items haven’t been T,A
I think they have and there are basically holding this up because of the court issue and the scope improvements

Really? On the updates and the Loc Pres. updates they have admitted that the last 4 giggies are still left to T/A including Scope, Med, Pension, health etc... And with just scope alone the following groups are still not T/A'ed, you can refer to the Oct 25th update to verify: Mechanic and related (that's more than one group), GSE, facilities, MLS and stores, and of course Fleet. Is that not all the groups in nego's? So, why do you believe those items are all T/A'ed when they have said they are not?? Hell you guys don't even know what the ruling is on seniority, won't find out about that until T/A day, wanna guess why???
This is why it is so important to explain and give details throughout. The rumors and misinformation is just damaging more than anything right now. What is gonna be even more damaging is when all the details are released and the membership finds out what the asso agreed to. Here's that Oct 25th update:

Negotiations Update
October 25, 2019
0 Comments

October 25, 2019

Sisters and Brothers,

Since the resumption of mediated negotiations between the Association and American Airlines on September 16, the parties have met multiple days over five weekly sessions. Although progress has been slow, it has been positive and productive. The talks have moved into more serious and in-depth discussions regarding Scope, Insurance and Retirement.

Since resolution to most of the remaining open items rely on reaching an agreement in total, no specific tentative agreements have been signed-off or agreed to. However, we can report on the subjects we have discussed.

In Mechanic and Related Scope, the parties have narrowed their positions on Heavy Maintenance issues, international outsourcing and protected cities in the US. The parties have narrowed all aspects of GSE including scope and named protected cities. We remain apart on Facilities scope. MLS/Stores scope was discussed this week and we have moved closer to agreement.

The parties’ positions have narrowed on Fleet Service Scope specific to the number of cities and flight thresholds in those cities.

Meaningful discussions on all facets of insurance took place this week: Health Insurance, Dental Insurance, Life Insurance, Accidental Death Insurance, Long Term Disability Insurance and Retiree Medical/Sick Time buy out.

Discussions for retirement focused on the design and value of defined-benefit and defined-contribution retirement plans.

By mutual agreement, the parties continue to agree not to release in-depth details of these on-going discussions. At this critical phase of negotiations, this practice keeps the progress of these discussions moving forward.

When we get to the point of an agreement in principal more details will be released. The Executive and full Negotiating Committees appreciate the Memberships’ patience and support through the negotiation process.

Negotiations are scheduled to resume next week in Washington, D.C.

Please Post on All TWU- IAM Bulletin Boards

PDF version: Association-Bulletin: October-25-2019Download

 

[Phoenix757767]

Why wont the iam support afa?
At Continental, the twu gave the ramp its best shot but then supported the iam. Then when Buschell and Reagan screwed up the continental campaign by scamming, the twu supported the ibt because the continental ramp would not vote for the iam after the scandal.

Why not support the afa if you are iam?
I mean imo the afa is awful but i cant figure out why the iam sabatoges the afa when they are suppose to be family.
Regards,

Man you lie more than a Persian rug. Never worked any CO campaign. Try again.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

He was talking about AMT's and you were referring to fleet mainly

no, i was talking about AMTs.

i understand the card drive and would never take money out of anyone's pocket - but the thought of a richer contract with amfa and that aa will keep the same AMT scope with the same amount/more AMTs, is delusional.

to me, that will be the trade-off.

the reason i brought up fleet, is that some believe that fleet holds them back financially. those other airlines pay their fleet service more per hour and also hand them much bigger profit sharing checks.

one way or another, the current aa is stingy. good luck getting anything out of them. they are dead-set on rewarding it's shareholders with buy-backs and not rewarding it's employees.

 

[Kev3188]

Never worked any CO campaign.

So all those times you’ve posted about being a part of negotiations at CO were lies? Got it.

 

[CremaDiLimone]

I know I have seen 2 dozen or so folks leave AA for SWA. And yes the majority of them had 10 plus years at AA. Some even had 16-20 plus years. Your comment about the 7-9 year guys thinking they will just vote their jobs away (in a different post) is total BS and you know it. Just another scare tactic.

- that's exactly right. after the 2003 concessions to avoid BK and the 2011 BK - where are the AMTs today? where are the rest of aa's employees today?

talking about 'parity', we aren't even on par with lus aa employees. and we are the original 'aa' employees.

- i'm not trying to scare anyone. of course no one will lose their job because they sign a card. i look 8 steps after that. what is the point of amfa if the AMTs won't focus on a richer contract?? if so, there will be a trade-off and i have any idea what that will be, if the AMTs do get a richer contract than anything the assoc. can get them.

 

[Tim Nelson]

For anyone to claim AMFA will get them more seniority is just rhetoric and not true. As it has already been stated, if AMFA is brought in they will honor the arbitrators ruling on the seniority issue since the two unions TWU/IAM could not agree to it themselves with all the arguing over it they just threw their hands up, screwed the membership, and gave it to a 3rd party. So sad how quickly they gave it up too.
Now I know the amendable date was 4 years ago, but how long have they been at nego's? Is it really 6 or more like 5???
BTW timmy, it's not a raid. It's a grassroots effort and going extremely strong this time around. The "And Related" are much more educated this time around and the IAM is sick and tired too. They too finally see all the BS and mass dysfunctional and infighting with this asso. that was forced on everyone with NO vote. Time for change...

Unlike an arbitration, Javitz' ruling was only an opinion and approved by the committee. Unlike the bloch decision, there simply has not been an arbitrated decision. Again, Javitz was simply hired to make a recommendation.
It is extremely unlikely that amfa would reverse course on it, but the Javitz dscision isnt written in stone, legally, and it could be scrapped.

 

[Tim Nelson]

Since Pay, Scope, Retirement, and Medical are nowhere near being T/A'ed, that seems even more hollow than normal.



Tough to say. From this observer's perch, it seems to be on life support right now. The appetite for organizing is there; it just seems that the IAM isn't offering a compelling option to draw people in.



Scamming? Scandal? Do tell.

It was a mess. Collected cards only to cut a new ta for the stews. Ramp got played. Twu had enough so it endorsed the ibt in 2008.

 

[Phoenix757767]

For anyone to claim AMFA will get them more seniority is just rhetoric and not true. As it has already been stated, if AMFA is brought in they will honor the arbitrators ruling on the seniority issue since the two unions TWU/IAM could not agree to it themselves with all the arguing over it they just threw their hands up, screwed the membership, and gave it to a 3rd party. So sad how quickly they gave it up too.
Now I know the amendable date was 4 years ago, but how long have they been at nego's? Is it really 6 or more like 5???
BTW timmy, it's not a raid. It's a grassroots effort and going extremely strong this time around. The "And Related" are much more educated this time around and the IAM is sick and tired too. They too finally see all the BS and mass dysfunctional and infighting with this asso. that was forced on everyone with NO vote. Time for change...

Lying again I see. You all got a bump in seniority with the AirTran merger.

 

[Phoenix757767]

So all those times you’ve posted about being a part of negotiations at CO were lies? Got it.

Gee you have comprehension issues like Tim.

Being on the IAM CO FA NC in 2005 is negotiations, not an organizing campaign. FAs at CO were already IAM, no one was organizing them.

trying real hard to fulfill your role of a troll.