American Airlines and Labor Negotiations

[Talos]

I'm very disappointed in many ways over the pace of negotiations. I can choose many areas but the one that affects me the most if I was to choose one would be the potential lose of compensation. The 401k contributions and the increased match. With less than ten years to go and my pension is frozen I need to fill the gap. The 401k is as good as it gets but the slow pace of negotiations is screwing the senior guys who want to maximize their retirement savings. The association is more concerned about the unborn and saving dues. I understand that you need to protect jobs but for people that are not even on the payroll sounds selfish. I know there are more issues. I wish the IAM side will just give up on the cheapo medical plan and the IAMPF. They can use those two items to shore up job security, scope, compensation and medical caps.

The disappointment is pretty wide spread on the LAA side. You knew it would be difficult to negotiate a deal with the 2 unions having large differences, but we at LAA have taken it on the chin for a good while now. You just get a feeling that the Association is not leveling with the members. The extremely sour picture that negotiations has portrayed makes you wonder if some fresh faces are required to get a deal done.Samuelson telling Isom we would take the company down was really pretty foolish. And the company could have stepped up a long time ago and got a deal.

 

[Tim Nelson]

The disappointment is pretty wide spread on the LAA side. You knew it would be difficult to negotiate a deal with the 2 unions having large differences, but we at LAA have taken it on the chin for a good while now. You just get a feeling that the Association is not leveling with the members. The extremely sour picture that negotiations has portrayed makes you wonder if some fresh faces are required to get a deal done.Samuelson telling Isom we would take the company down was really pretty foolish. And the company could have stepped up a long time ago and got a deal.

It wasn't just the company. The Association has managed to piss off a Judge and the entire NMB as well. Fact is, nobody wants to sit across from young inexperienced guys who lack the professional skillset to negotiate. Instead they get frustrated and start crap talking. Things may move faster if and once a Judge gives the Association a hefty bill. Stay tuned!

 

[MetalMover]

Well it's been 4 years today since negotiations started if we go by the associations own words. They stated (whom ever they is) that 30 days after ratification of the association negotiations will begin.
Here we are 4 years later. Great progress. I've seen more internal disagreements between the two unions at all levels than between the company and the association. Will this be the mid point of negotiations timeline? Are we 4 years in and 4 more years to go? I believe nobody including myself can answer that truthfully.

Thanks to the bigmouth and his sidekick!

 

[MetalMover]

It wasn't just the company. The Association has managed to piss off a Judge and the entire NMB as well. Fact is, nobody wants to sit across from young inexperienced guys who lack the professional skillset to negotiate. Instead they get frustrated and start crap talking. Things may move faster if and once a Judge gives the Association a hefty bill. Stay tuned!

I guess the Texas judge didn’t soil his pants after seeing the big mouth threathen bloodshed.

 

[V.O. Reason]

What you are still not understanding is that the Company is not looking to compromise on those items they want.

There are no exchanges that are acceptable for the Scope changes they want. They want changes to both Fleet and Maintenance that lowers our overall numbers from what they are today over time. They want the majority of Facilities and Automotive outsourced and Stores decimated.

On Medical they want the expenses raised to 21% of their anticipated total costs without allowing the TWU or IAM to be able to audit those costs and they are offering NO CAPS if they claim their costs have risen. So they want no language that prevents them charging whatever they want.

The Company just agreed to go with the “Preferred Schedule” on the IAMNPF so that means they will now be putting in more per member once that Schedule goes into effect.

If the Company still does want out of the IAMNPF they have to pay the “Withdrawal Liability Fee” which is UNDER LAW that they can’t get out of.

And I’m just as much affected by the current loss of income as you are with maybe less than 10 years of my career to go as well. But if I have to vote on the Company’s offer as it currently stands I will still vote NO.

Then quite stalling on the current proposal and let the members decide.
Oh right that might be too democratic for this communist union

 

[WeAAsles]

Then quite stalling on the current proposal and let the members decide.
Oh right that might be too democratic for this communist union

That may eventually just happen. You do know that there actually are still some loose ends that the Company hasn’t finished off yet right.

The IAMNPF hasn’t been decided yet and what do you think should be done about STORES? (MLS)

 

[V.O. Reason]

So we see according to our resident Ass mouthpiece the company isn’t changing what it wants in the scope and other items.
So what’s the endgame here wait for 2 or more years and hope for a release then walk? Not likely or do they allow a full proposal be made with all these items on the table and let us decide.
Or an arbitration hearing which the union should know by now won’t go well.
So in the mean time we sit here loosing money in many areas and with the real possibility of going 4 or more years without a pay raise.
Again I would ask for a higher raise 3.5 percent and a higher signing bonus and move on

 

[V.O. Reason]

That may eventually just happen. You do know that there actually are still some loose ends that the Company hasn’t finished off yet right.

The IAMNPF hasn’t been decided yet and what do you think should be done about STORES? (MLS)

Yes I know it’s not a complete proposal but the basics are pretty clear and yes I do want some tweaks and see that fine print.
It’s no different than when I sign off on a loan or such so yes be smart

 

[1AA]

It wasn't just the company. The Association has managed to piss off a Judge and the entire NMB as well. Fact is, nobody wants to sit across from young inexperienced guys who lack the professional skillset to negotiate. Instead they get frustrated and start crap talking. Things may move faster if and once a Judge gives the Association a hefty bill. Stay tuned!

The association big mouths now have to be careful what they say. It will cost the union a monetary penalty if the company can further prove any kind of job action or that will affect bookings, ontime performance and excessive out of service aircraft. Even if the delays and out of service are escalated for safety and legitimate cause the company will still push in the direction of work disruption and operational distress. Going back to the judge a second time will be easier to prove. The association is in a tough spot since certain big mouths expressed their anger and opinions in a way that was uncalled for and legally irresponsible. This in no way will help the membership in negotiations but might force the association leadership to give in to the company if a monetary fine or fines is imposed by the courts over further stupid, idiotic, unprofessional outbursts. The APA had a similar situation over a well proven sickout and was fined. The APA fine was dropped by the company in return for concessions in negotiations. History always repeats itself. The big losers will be us, the membership. Hopefully it won't go that far and we get a JCBA soon to vote on.

 

[WeAAsles]

Yes I know it’s not a complete proposal but the basics are pretty clear and yes I do want some tweaks and see that fine print.
It’s no different than when I sign off on a loan or such so yes be smart

Well how do you expect the Unions to be smart as you say if the Company still has some items “Open ended”

Again do you really want to vote leaving items unfinished?

BTW I think you’re in Fleet? What do you think of the 40% Systemwide PT proposal?

You do realize with language like that they can make an entire Hub PT over time if they want.

BTW I suspect that Station and Status Protection language is only good if you stay put. We’ll forget about that Force Majeur thing for now since yes every Airline Contract does have that language in them.

 

[Tim Nelson]

So we see according to our resident Ass mouthpiece the company isn’t changing what it wants in the scope and other items.
So what’s the endgame here wait for 2 or more years and hope for a release then walk? Not likely or do they allow a full proposal be made with all these items on the table and let us decide.
Or an arbitration hearing which the union should know by now won’t go well.
So in the mean time we sit here loosing money in many areas and with the real possibility of going 4 or more years without a pay raise.
Again I would ask for a higher raise 3.5 percent and a higher signing bonus and move on

Dont listen to weez. He is incorrect. Him and his handlers are crybabies and expect the company to move without the assoc understanding how to make it happen.
Our current predicament could be enhanced but there wont be any movement or scheduled talks until the association end its bitterness and unprofessionalism. Weez may think he is being truthful by saying that the company wont move. It will but not in this predicament.

The reality is that the association hasnt moved. for fleet, it insist 20 more stations and 2500 more dues payers.
Thats never going to happen. But it may get iah and rsw ive been told. 42 or maybe even 45 stations. But not 60.

 

[WeAAsles]

LOS ANGELES (CBSLA) — American Airlines Monday canceled 30 flights at Los Angeles International Airport following what it called an “illegal slowdown” by mechanics.

Blaming the disruption on a labor dispute with its mechanics, the airline took action requesting a restraining order against the group alleging an illegal slowdown that had caused the cancellation of 722 flights in 23 days.

On Friday, a federal judge ordered the unions representing the mechanics not to interfere in the airline’s operations.

Judge John McBryde in Fort Worth, Texas, says a temporary restraining order is warranted because American is likely to win on its claim that the Transport Workers Union and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers are violating federal labor law.

“We’re pleased with the Court’s decision to grant a temporary restraining order requiring the TWU-IAM Association to comply with its legal obligations and end the illegal showdown,” American said in a statement.

Across the nation, the airline giant canceled 191 flights Monday.

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2019/06/18/aa-flights-cancelled-lax-labor-dispute/

 

[WeAAsles]

So we see according to our resident Ass mouthpiece the company isn’t changing what it wants in the scope and other items.
So what’s the endgame here wait for 2 or more years and hope for a release then walk? Not likely or do they allow a full proposal be made with all these items on the table and let us decide.
Or an arbitration hearing which the union should know by now won’t go well.
So in the mean time we sit here loosing money in many areas and with the real possibility of going 4 or more years without a pay raise.
Again I would ask for a higher raise 3.5 percent and a higher signing bonus and move on

Let me correct you here. I am nothing more than a Fleet Service Clerk in MIA. I’m not even currently a Shop Steward although I have considered taking a pin again here Locally. I don’t speak for any Union but I do speak for myself.

Currently what we know publicly is that we are waiting on the NMB to decide the next move. The Association has asked to negotiate with the Company but Robert Isom has said that he doesn’t believe those talks are going anywhere and the idea to sit is pointless.

So if either side really does feel that way and doesn’t want to meet with the other than none of us have any choice but to wait until the NMB makes the next call.

 

[1986Mekanic]

Let me correct you here. I am nothing more than a Fleet Service Clerk in MIA. I’m not even currently a Shop Steward although I have considered taking a pin again here Locally. I don’t speak for any Union but I do speak for myself.

Currently what we know publicly is that we are waiting on the NMB to decide the next move. The Association has asked to negotiate with the Company but Robert Isom has said that he doesn’t believe those talks are going anywhere and the idea to sit is pointless.

So if either side really does feel that way and doesn’t want to meet with the other than none of us have any choice but to wait until the NMB makes the next call.

They want to vote on an incomplete proposal. My crystal ball says they would vote it in and then blame the union for allowing it to go to a vote. And then lie, and say they didnt vote for it. Its been like this for as long as Ive been here.

Dont put the pos out for a vote.

 

[WeAAsles]

They want to vote on an incomplete proposal. My crystal ball says they would vote it in and then blame the union for allowing it to go to a vote. And then lie, and say they didnt vote for it. Its been like this for as long as Ive been here.

Dont put the pos out for a vote.

They wouldn’t start really saying that they voted no until they started feeling some of the damage happening from voting in incomplete proposals. Then absolutely they would use the decision as a springboard to point the finger at the TWU and the IAM for the rest of their careers and pass on their hate to the next Generation as well.

It’s just what people do.

We’ve seen this Movie before obviously but the NMB may come back with a recommendation that we do vote on what the Company has prepared so far or we go on hard ice.

If that happens and the Association recommends a strong NO vote, and any group passes I wouldn’t accept any jackasses pointing the finger.