Alpa Mec Meeting Update

[BoeingBoy]

The A scale pilots who came before me stabed me in the back. I'm not falling on the sword for them, at this or any other airline.

[post="188844"][/post]​

Welcome to the "Backstabbers Club". Your membership card is in the mail....

Jim

 

[EyeInTheSky]

I was never a fan of the B scale, opposed it actually. But you willingly accepted the job under those conditions. And you're apparently willing to accept a "permanent" B scale by accepting this contract. So either stop complaining or vote No.
I did accept the job under those conditions and I'm not complaining. I stating a fact. The A scale pilots who came before me stabed me in the back. I'm not falling on the sword for them, at this or any other airline.

You better learn to accept the job under these conditions. Unless you can convince the guy on the street not to work for Airtran, America West, etc., voting no just make us unemployed. It will not prevent paycuts at this or any other airline.

[post="188844"][/post]​

Cripe, traderjake, I am in the same boat as you. BUT, unless you were in the first B-Scale class, meaning you took the job under the assumption you would be A Scale when you were hired, then you can be pissed. However. if you are like most of us, you knew about B scale when you took the job then. Basically, you only have yourself to blame because you KNEW what you were getting into. Now, if you want to be really pissed off take it out on the pilots who continue to buckle under pressure when the company comes calling for more money.

 

[traderjake]

Cripe, traderjake, I am in the same boat as you. BUT, unless you were in the first B-Scale class, meaning you took the job under the assumption you would be A Scale when you were hired, then you can be pissed. However. if you are like most of us, you knew about B scale when you took the job then. Basically, you only have yourself to blame because you KNEW what you were getting into. Now, if you want to be really pissed off take it out on the pilots who continue to buckle under pressure when the company comes calling for more money.

[post="189012"][/post]​

I knew exactly what I was getting into and I'm not angry. I responding the people who tell me I need to vote no and shut my company down to honor the sacrifices of the pilots who came before me.

I owe no loyalty to the pilots who negotiated a 30% paycut for me and a 3% raise for themselves. Everyone acts in their own self interest. They did then and I am now.

Our ALPA advisors tell us if we vote the TA down it's all but certain the ATSB or other creditors liquidate the company. They are not going to finance a hostile labor force. Would you?

I'd rather work under the TA while I look for another way to make money than be unemployed.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

I knew exactly what I was getting into and I'm not angry. I responding the people who tell me I need to vote no and shut my company down to honor the sacrifices of the pilots who came before me.

I owe no loyalty to the pilots who negotiated a 30% paycut for me and a 3% raise for themselves. Everyone acts in their own self interest. They did then and I am now.

Our ALPA advisors tell us if we vote the TA down it's all but certain the ATSB or other creditors liquidate the company. They are not going to finance a hostile labor force. Would you?

I'd rather work under the TA while I look for another way to make money than be unemployed.

[post="189561"][/post]​

No,
The last thing I heard was that UAIRQ is in such serious straights that management needs ANOTHER 50% again (150 million ). When do you think enough is enough? Let the poor patient die already! If you believe that you're worth less, then fine, you deserve less as well. Even if the pilots vote this gawdawful TA in, the airline WILL CEASE TO EXIST. The industry will accept that pilots make too much, since UAIRQ pilots said so. There won't be a good job in aviation fo years to come. It would be FAR better to let this pig die, get on somewhere else at decent wages, and possibly even have a retirement. This TA WON'T save ANY jobs, especially without scope, fragmentation, or even fleet count protection. Consolidation is inevitable, even Siegel said so. With this TA, pilots won't go with equipment, equipment won't go with routes, and it'll make the TWA/AA deal look like a good deal!

 

[PITbull]

And Oldie,

That is the most factual post and dose of reality on this board.

 

[usairways_vote_NO]

And Oldie,

That is the most factual post and dose of reality on this board.

[post="189567"][/post]​

Agreed, let the pig die

 

[bluetoad]

320 keeps talking about flying the EMB-190/195. Doesn't jetblue have firm orders for over a 100 of these planes? How long will it take U get some of these aircraft?
Thanks

 

[oldiebutgoody]

320 keeps talking about flying the EMB-190/195. Doesn't jetblue have firm orders for over a 100 of these planes? How long will it take U get some of these aircraft?
Thanks

[post="189578"][/post]​

U will be in the "airlines of the past" forum long before these are available. Besides, who in their right mind would EVER finance them at rates that would allow U to be competitive, no matter what they pay employees? I see absolutely NO scenario where U can emerge chapter 11 as a viable carrier, especially with the demoralized and beaten down work force there. Something I learned long ago as a manager and supervisor: treat your employees as a liability, and they soon become one.

There is virtually no reason for anyone to choose to fly US Airways over the competition, and the comparison between them and everyone else is getting increasingly worse.

 

[Air conditioned]

Last I saw, the E-190 won't be certified and deliveries start till the 3rd quarter of '05. That info is a few months old, so some change either way may have occured.

[post="188631"][/post]​

320 keeps talking about flying the EMB-190/195. Doesn't jetblue have firm orders for over a 100 of these planes? How long will it take U get some of these aircraft?
Thanks

[post="189578"][/post]​

Hope this helps, bluetoad.
Boeing Boy is usually right on.

 

[UseYourHead]

Jim,

Is there some reason you want the company to fail, and for you to start over? Is there something wrong with those of us who choose to stay?

If you do not like the new deal will you just move on? Have you been interviewing and really examining what the deal is that awaits you out there?

Just wondering...For the vast majority of people here they are best served by staying, or having this job while they look to replace it...as opposed to those who are full of glee over the prospect of some vacation time while on unemployment....

What is you plan B?

I was never a fan of the B scale, opposed it actually. But you willingly accepted the job under those conditions. And you're apparently willing to accept a "permanent" B scale by accepting this contract. So either stop complaining or vote No.

By my count, we pilots have "saved the airline" 4 or 5 times already. I guess U is the anti-matter version of a cat - 9 deaths. Can we stop "saving" this company once all 9 have been used up?

Jim

[post="188624"][/post]​

 

[UseYourHead]

traderjake,

I agree and will add that if you are currently a pilot for US Airways, just try and get an interview at AirTran. If you are lucky enough to get one, see if you can get hired, you may not.

I have spoke to many out interviewing who have been turned down, or never even have been selected for an interview.

It is a hard cold world out there and the majority of people are fooling themselves thinking that replacing this job will be easy.

Even if you get hired there, your job is starting over for the deal we are about to vote on....

A no vote is a really foolish move, your right. The other airlines will love to come in and haul our customers, while we watch with regret from the sidelines...ya we showed management...pathetic!

You better learn to accept the job under these conditions. Unless you can convince the guy on the street not to work for Airtran, America West, etc., voting no just make us unemployed. It will not prevent paycuts at this or any other airline.

[post="188844"][/post]​

 

[UseYourHead]

PitBull,

I wonder what the judge would think about one of the labor reps thinking the thing to do is shut down the company due to lack of willingness to work with the company?

Afterall his job is to rule to allow emergency paycuts to keep the company operating, something you are clearly opposed to, and constantly fuel the rally on these boards.

You have no interest in doing anything to help this airline survive, and in fact are working against it, and freely promote that concept. I think that is very sad coming from someone that should be working to ensure continued employment for FAs.

And Oldie,

That is the most factual post and dose of reality on this board.

[post="189567"][/post]​

 

[700UW]

UYH,

How can you trust a management who admitted in a court filing they failed?

How can you trust a management that has thrown away $2.4 Billion in employee concessions in two years?

How can you trust a management who has tried to steal from the contracts what they could not negotiate?

How can you trust a management that has no clue on how to run an airline?

How can you trust a management that has made the employees the enemy and not the competitions?

How can you trust a management who's only plan is to steal from the employees wallets?

How can you trust a CEO who has NO airline experience?

How can you trust a SR VP of Labor Relations who goes out of his way to rule by fear and intimidation?

 

[PITbull]

UseYourHead,

The only difference, I see, from what you imply in your post above to Jim is that starting over for you would be much worse than where you are today with U.

The way I see it, is the seniority issue, and that is "iffie" here at U for you as well.

With respect to the wage and benefits, giving these severe cuts, is like starting at JetBlue or Am. West (not SouthWest as their wages blow U away). Why not start with a better company at low wages, than at U who you never know will exist from one day to the next.

Don't forget, what comes along with U, is this management.


In order for U to transform and compete with their perceived competition, is to get rid of F/C, no flying Intenational, and no frequent flying program or meals on the flight, besides pretzels. Keep in mind that JetBlue only has approx 25 airplanes all airbus. If U had 25 airplanes at their most profitable routes, (one type a/c) we would be making money hand over fist.

With expansion comes bigger problems.

Apples to apples comparison, and you just refuse to open your mind and see that reality.

You don't know anything about me professionally or personally. I want very much for U to succeed, but NOT at the expense of dismantling the workforce and throwing most of the employees into financial ruin.
Better, IMO, for U to shut down, and then start over as a different airline, much smaller, and a different managment team who will embrace their workforce, build team spirit, incentivize, and build the future.

That will not happen here at U. The model is broken, labor is shattered, and the management still continues to "brow beat" and isolate themselves to ensure only their gains in the future.

 

[cavalier]

traderjake,

...pathetic!

[post="189684"][/post]​

Like the captain says, “with respectâ€￾ you are sad thinking you "MUST" vote to accept the unacceptable for yourself. There are other jobs available and not necessarily at other airlines. There is an entire world out there hiring individuals every day and in fact just got off the phone with a friend who is leaving U after almost 16 years to greener pastures.

Like other posters are posting here: FEAR of the unknown is making you think this sad codependent way....

The world doesn't begin and end at U, wake up for God's sakes!