All U F/o's...where Is Your Outrage?

[birdseyeview]

TO ALL F/O's:

Your DC plan contribution was established assumming that you would be a C/O at a certain time in the future so that you could meet your final retirement dollar amount each pilot has calculated for them. If the MEC's proposal is accepted and approved, you are going to be getting your DC contribution percentage based on a F/O's salary for a lot longer than everyone thought before. Is this fair? ABSOLUTELY NOT. SPEAK UP AND BE HEARD. This is a "land grab" against all first officers at USAirways.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

TO ALL F/O's:

Your DC plan contribution was established assumming that you would be a C/O at a certain time in the future so that you could meet your final retirement dollar amount each pilot has calculated for them. If the MEC's proposal is accepted and approved, you are going to be getting your DC contribution percentage based on a F/O's salary for a lot longer than everyone thought before. Is this fair? ABSOLUTELY NOT. SPEAK UP AND BE HEARD. This is a "land grab" against all first officers at USAirways.

[post="174722"][/post]​

Vote No! I don't think this thing is going to pass anyway. Just my two cents.

 

[mwereplanes]

There is now a very good possibility you will not get a chance to vote no.

The majority of pilots represented by 4 MEC members will take care of doing that for you. As they should.

mr

 

[birdseyeview]

When the MEC voted to give up our DB plan, they replaced it with a DC plan. This plan projected that every pilot would accumulate a certain dollar amount at retirement based on each individuals pilots age,seniority, bidding history etc. Now that our union has established this figure for everyone, they think it is fair when they apply a 10% reduction to everyone's DC contribution percentage. Sounds fair on the surface doesn't it? ONLY IF YOUR UNION DOESN'T CHANGE THE PROJECTED DATE OF GETTING A CAPTAIN UPGRADE. Your DC contribution percentage is going to be applied to your NOW much longer stay as a F/O as a result of your union accepting furloughs and greater productivity. This inequity does not affect captains except the ones at the bottom that will become f/o's again. MWEREPLANES would have you believe that hey, everything is based on seniority....it's just your tough luck. That argument does not hold water. Everything changed when our union established a DC contribution percentage for every pilot. This proposed TA is being subsidized by the bottom half of the seniority list for the benefit of the top half. WAKE UP F/O's !

 

[BoeingBoy]

birdseyeview,

I'm not disagreeing with the gist of your post, only a couple of small points.

The company produced the "career progression model", not the union. It did not consider bidding history, only their projection of a pilots progression up the ladder if that pilot constantly and consistantly held the highest paying position his seniority allowed.

To say the model was (and is) flawed is an understatement, at least for those not close to retirement.

Likewise, the union did not calculate the DC plan contribution percentage. Again, the company did.

I will frankly admit that I don't know if the union was given access to this information or not. Or if the union had access, whether or not they had any input as far as accuracy.

Jim

 

[birdseyeview]

Thanks for the corrections BoeingBoy. Also for your understanding of the point I am making. I don't know if you agree with me or not, but the lack of response to this by F/O's reading this forum (this is my second time posting about this) really amazes me. It's bad enough to be held from upgrading by the decisions of our union, but to ask all F/O's to subsidize the retirement of all C/O's is OUTRAGEOUS! Maybe all C/O's should be taking a 20% hit to their DC contribution and F/O's only 10%. I don't know what the figures should be to make things equitable, but our NC and MEC must address this. Once again I say WHERE IS THE OUTRAGE on this board by all current and future F/O's?

 

[BoeingBoy]

birdseyeview,

I can only "run the numbers" for myself, since I only know the DC contribution for me. In this "sample" of one, it's almost a toss-up - get the money in the paycheck or get it in the DC plan (but it favors the DC plan slightly before the tax consideration).

My only comment would be that there are some junior f/o's near retirement - it's not unusual for me to fly with one closer to retirement than my 26+ months. I'm not sure if they'd see keeping the DC plan as "favoring the senior".

For what it's worth, I honestly believe that all this fuss over some agreement is much ado about nothing. We won't be around long enough for it to matter. If somehow we can convince the ATSB to let us skate on this month's requirements, there's another deadline coming at the end of next quarter, and the next, and so on. I also firmly believe that Bronner was right when he said that if we enter BK, the odds of us coming out are slim. And barring the ATSB saying "no", we'll be in BK by the middle of the month.

Jim

 

[USA320Pilot]

The good news is that the parties have progressed to working on the same piece of paper, which was generated by the RC4/C4 and their Negotiating Committee (NC). That's the first step in Negotiating 101 to reach resolution and closure.

In conversations I had today with MEC officers, MEC members, and NC members the focus has shifted back to pay rates because as the pay rate drops the DC plan drops even more.

There is no question ALPA's current proposal benefits the very senior the most with the early retirement incentive program, expanded voluntary leave of absence plan with 5 months of severance pay, sick bank cash out, and expanded vacation flyback program. Will the RC4/C4’s plan save some or all F/O jobs? Absolutely, but there is no question that the RC4/C4’s proposal benefits the most senior while the further down the list a pilot sits, the deal gets worse, and worse, and worse.

In regard to whether or not there will be a vote, even with the proposed cuts 3 of the 4 RC4/C4 members will still earn over $200,000 per year in pay and DC plan benefits. They can threaten to use the "roll call" and maybe they will, but if they do according to ALPA's advisors the airline will certainly liquidate and then they will lose well over $1 million each in pay, benefits, and separation incentives, just to flex their chest being a "tough guy".

What's to bad is that ALPA's financial, legal, and economic advisors have told the MEC that the union could have had a deal at 85% of the ask a few months ago (in my opinion probably like America West contract), but now it's going to be much worse due to the RC4/C4 and Negotiating Committee's tactics. This group and their inexperience (with many of the group "rookies") have repeatedly made decisons against the advice of ALPA International advisors and its now costing the pilot group dearly.

Respectfully,

USA320Pilot

 

[birdseyeview]

Good post 320. The RC4 really knows how to take care of themselves, while throwing a few scraps to the rest of us. The RC4 want to control what is voted on by the pilots because if they let the pilots vote on the company's offer, The RC4 will loose everything that benefits them the most. Moral of the story.....be very careful who you elect to represent you.

 

[BoeingBoy]

birdseyeview,

Don't believe everything you read. A lot of that is spin.

Those willing to accept any company offer to keep a job have already plowed the fields and sown the seeds of blame, when it is their fear and weakness that is the cause of this.

Jim