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...and Delta is the conductor!
Airline stocks down sharply - DOJ reportedly to block AMR/LCC
- Thread starter WorldTraveler
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...and Delta is the conductor!
Crzipilot
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- Mar 23, 2004
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Maybe it was that Frat boy Dougweiser forwarded a number of them to another airline CEO to show what type of an ass he was being......... If he did that. Who knows what else he did with the other emails....Really?!?!?! No wonder he got kicked out of AA early on....Oh wait...or was it due to the prev. 3 DWI incidents before his AZ arrest?
Reed Richards
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- Sep 2, 2009
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Reed Richards
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I argue they will not be successful. My spokespersons reside at the APA HQ in Dallas. The standalone plan with Horton is at least a second trip to BK, maybe worse. And if you think while going through all that they will indeed purchase and finance over 1000 new aircraft and service their "unserviceable" debt I have some swamp land in FLA to sell you. Back to APA, with their "in the bag" standalone contract. Are you aware that includes a 50% code share option? That is nuclear, the end of APA as we know it, a scope nightmare. Without US Airways to fill that slot, they are in for a rough ride. Not that US Airways is any better off, we at least are making money and have a little more time. But our debt may crush us also in the end. RR
Yeah right...US is the savior..LMAO!!!!! US is SOOOOO desperate for a merger, Dougie will give up ANYTHING to get it.
Everyone knows that, in the end, it's really AA saving US. Without AA, US employees continue to be at the bottom of the pay scales....which all other airline management will use to justify raping the wages of their workers. Without AA, US continues it's in-fighting with it's unions...how many years and you can't come up with a seniority list? US brings nothing to AA but short sighted management and additional union issues.
And, maybe Horton isn't the right guy to run AA...but I certainly know US/America West management is definitely not. After seeing their plan on how to run an airline...you can be ABSOLUTELY certain there would be another trip to BK for the combined carrier.
I really hope the DOJ is successful!!! If it's not...well, I guess...welcome aboard...I can't wait to work with you.
You're right, the last few years have been tough. Up until 2011, we had been fighting to stay out of bankruptcy...something no other airline was able to do. Up until 2011, and actually beyond, our union employees have fought for the best contract they could possibly get for their people...what have your unions done done for you?
No one from Horton on down at AA really wants this merger. If the AA unions could get from Horton what Doug promised...they would have told US to take a hike long ago.
It will be interesting....but I really hope the DOJ got it right and is able to stop this shotgun wedding.
im back..!!
Senior
- Mar 26, 2011
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As a side note......AA's 18 month window for a self-generated reorgination plan ended a few months back. If this POR with USAirways isnt consumated, I believe they are suseptable to hostile takeover plans. Includung one's that are piecemeal. IE: Delta will bid X for the MIA and Sout America routes, United bids for something different etc.
Soo, Mr "I hope they stop this shotgun wedding", you might want to rethink your bravado.....They arent required to honor any contracts or keep employees....just fragment assets to satisfy creditors......
cltrat
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- Aug 29, 2007
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you're pretty easy to figure, some AArogant jet jockey who thinks his poop don't stink because he can fly an airplane.We've all seen your type.
It's funny you mention all the other work groups since no doubt you could care less if they get contracted out or not as long as you get yours.
ContUNITEus
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- May 4, 2011
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Ohhhh the memories....
Remember the times when Horton desperately fought off Doug Parker and US Airways, stating that AA does not need to merge with anyone?
http://www.tulsaworl...e1_cutlin326113
http://atlantabankru...ger-rumors.html
It seems that everyone has forgotten that at one point, this leading AA team stated at one point that AA was completely capable to do a turn around on its own, without outside interference. What? Now they're going to claim in court that US is [was] a must for AA's survival?
Remember the times when Horton desperately fought off Doug Parker and US Airways, stating that AA does not need to merge with anyone?
http://www.tulsaworl...e1_cutlin326113
http://atlantabankru...ger-rumors.html
It seems that everyone has forgotten that at one point, this leading AA team stated at one point that AA was completely capable to do a turn around on its own, without outside interference. What? Now they're going to claim in court that US is [was] a must for AA's survival?
JFK Fleet Service
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That's for you "I'm back..."
Yes, AMR can survive, but they won't be competing on any world stage. AMR as a stand alone will not compete with DAL or UAL.
P. Rez
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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Perhaps this thread and the merger – if it happens - have been poisoned so badly by another opportunity to sling dirt but I’ll try and refocus on the topic itself.
By definition of “uncompetitive” the people/organizations that could be most hurt by the merger are the ones who are against it, or at least their government representations acting for them.
I suppose you mean Delta, though, since there are a number of articles that say that it was DL’s triple miles promo that Parker didn’t like which led to the chain of emails inside US complaining about DL’s actions and proposing that one day consolidation would stop that all from happening. That email chain was forwarded to DL execs, presumably Richard Anderson, according to at least one article which said that the DL exec replied to Parker saying the email was inappropriate and was being forward to the company’s chief counsel.
Whether DL sent it to the DOJ is unknown but the DOJ can and does fight anticompetitive actions whether a merger is involved or not. Further, if DL forwarded it to the DOJ, they probably did so to make certain that DL wasn’t later accused of colluding with US at some later point if the email surfaced. It is also possible that the DOJ flagged US and Parker at that point and began to demand copies of emails and other documents even before the merger application was filed with the DOJ.
Thus, for Parker to have been informed that a competitor was forwarding an email which another airline exec deemed to be unacceptable to their legal department should have raised all kinds of flags to Parker and anyone else at US who knew about it. To believe that denial of the merger came out of the blue when the DOJ could well have had an antitrust case open is a little hard to believe.
What can’t be denied is that US has locked itself into a business plan that originated from America West which involved bottom fishing for revenue from other carriers’ top markets, locking US into a profile of having lower revenues than their legacy airline peers, thus providing “justification” to pay below average labor rates.
Let's also be clear that AA, despite being smaller, has not resorted to a strategy of undercutting its competitors in its key markets as US has done. The prospects for AA based on its size and pricing and network strategies is very different than they are for US.
Desperate to end the cycle, Parker voiced continuous need for mergers in the industry and went so far as to send an email to the CEO of one of US’ chief rivals asking them to reduce competition. Is it any surprise that a company that US preyed on for years didn’t miss an opportunity to let the DOJ in on the little secret that Parker thought would just be guy talk over the bathroom stalls, even if their larger motive was to make sure that the recipient of the e-mail stayed out of hot water with the DOJ?
It is VERY, VERY possible that not approving the merger will be a small part of the ramifications of these newly released emails which the DOJ might have known around for years with effects felt throughout the executive ranks of US and AA, if the people there who wrote those emails are still around.
The fact that HP/US execs who wrote those emails would end up running the new AA is precisely why the DOJ decided they cannot allow the mindset that was expressed in the emails to be implanted in a larger, more concentrated industry.
AA and US lawyers and a lot of analysts will try to argue all kinds of other issues without admitting that these emails are likely the key evidence the DOJ needs to block the merger unless drastic, sweeping changes are made in AA/US mgmt and/or unless controls are in place to ensure the type of thing discussed in the emails never has the opportunity to become reality.
By definition of “uncompetitive” the people/organizations that could be most hurt by the merger are the ones who are against it, or at least their government representations acting for them.
I suppose you mean Delta, though, since there are a number of articles that say that it was DL’s triple miles promo that Parker didn’t like which led to the chain of emails inside US complaining about DL’s actions and proposing that one day consolidation would stop that all from happening. That email chain was forwarded to DL execs, presumably Richard Anderson, according to at least one article which said that the DL exec replied to Parker saying the email was inappropriate and was being forward to the company’s chief counsel.
Whether DL sent it to the DOJ is unknown but the DOJ can and does fight anticompetitive actions whether a merger is involved or not. Further, if DL forwarded it to the DOJ, they probably did so to make certain that DL wasn’t later accused of colluding with US at some later point if the email surfaced. It is also possible that the DOJ flagged US and Parker at that point and began to demand copies of emails and other documents even before the merger application was filed with the DOJ.
Thus, for Parker to have been informed that a competitor was forwarding an email which another airline exec deemed to be unacceptable to their legal department should have raised all kinds of flags to Parker and anyone else at US who knew about it. To believe that denial of the merger came out of the blue when the DOJ could well have had an antitrust case open is a little hard to believe.
What can’t be denied is that US has locked itself into a business plan that originated from America West which involved bottom fishing for revenue from other carriers’ top markets, locking US into a profile of having lower revenues than their legacy airline peers, thus providing “justification” to pay below average labor rates.
Let's also be clear that AA, despite being smaller, has not resorted to a strategy of undercutting its competitors in its key markets as US has done. The prospects for AA based on its size and pricing and network strategies is very different than they are for US.
Desperate to end the cycle, Parker voiced continuous need for mergers in the industry and went so far as to send an email to the CEO of one of US’ chief rivals asking them to reduce competition. Is it any surprise that a company that US preyed on for years didn’t miss an opportunity to let the DOJ in on the little secret that Parker thought would just be guy talk over the bathroom stalls, even if their larger motive was to make sure that the recipient of the e-mail stayed out of hot water with the DOJ?
It is VERY, VERY possible that not approving the merger will be a small part of the ramifications of these newly released emails which the DOJ might have known around for years with effects felt throughout the executive ranks of US and AA, if the people there who wrote those emails are still around.
The fact that HP/US execs who wrote those emails would end up running the new AA is precisely why the DOJ decided they cannot allow the mindset that was expressed in the emails to be implanted in a larger, more concentrated industry.
AA and US lawyers and a lot of analysts will try to argue all kinds of other issues without admitting that these emails are likely the key evidence the DOJ needs to block the merger unless drastic, sweeping changes are made in AA/US mgmt and/or unless controls are in place to ensure the type of thing discussed in the emails never has the opportunity to become reality.
I accept your biased opinion.
Here's another biased opinion. AA competes today, albeit more difficult given UA/DL sizes. If this merger crap goes away...AA can get back to building a quality airline that will compete on service, amenities, and destinations. These are the things that AA needs to improve to better compete, of which, US contributes absolutely nothing.
im back..!!
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- Mar 26, 2011
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As they say, "The Truth Hurts".......
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