Aircraft maint issues

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

I’m not sure how long the Judge will take to make a decision on the lawsuit. I do know when Southwest union was sued by the company within a month they came to agreement! I will not be surprised we have a contract by the new year.

Matt1200........ I honestly just don't know what to say......

I remember the last negotiation the UNION was pushing a fear campaign to accept a concessionary contract. At first they were going to get rid of EVERYBODY in our shop, then they stated they were going to keep 45 IF the contract passed, then it was back to getting rid of everybody again (cause you know... the UNION fought like hell for our jobs *wanking motion*). I had senior people in my shop trying to convince me to vote away my own job because they thought they were going to get an early out package. The only thing supporting that contract did was force some people into early retirement, cause those who wanted to stay in their title group to scatter to higher cost living areas (most as part time), or force people to start their occupational seniority over to stay local. Some, like myself, saw the writing on the wall and started to work on an exit plan.

We had a company that wanted to get rid of our shop, a UNION president pushing a concessionary contract (and cutting under the table deals to save his own ass) and senior employees looking to use junior employees as sacrificial lambs so they could get a retirement package.

With the company, the UNION, and fellow employees all working against me (the perfect trifecta) how did I stand a chance?

More to the point how do any of YOU stand a chance? If you want a strong UNION, you (not you personally but you as a group) really need to start supporting each other first. Stop looking at juniority as layoff fodder. Call the UNION out for allowing these early out packages to the detriment of the membership.

 

[swamt]

It's so nice as of late to come on this forum without the insults and stupidity of non AMT'S trying to hijack and create diversity among ourselves. I hope we can learn from this, ignore the trash talkers so we can have meaningful and informative discussions.

Indeed it is. YCFS (stupid) was my second time I have ever reported someone for the threats and his cut downs, and I do believe he is now gone.

The quotes were used to show how Members understood or interpreted the terminology used by Association as to mean there was something happening.

So since timmy boy won't answer me in the other thread, has the OTS numbers increased or decreased since the TRO was ordered? And the co. said the refusal to work O/T; did any of this change as well??

Matt1200........ I honestly just don't know what to say......

I remember the last negotiation the UNION was pushing a fear campaign to accept a concessionary contract. At first they were going to get rid of EVERYBODY in our shop, then they stated they were going to keep 45 IF the contract passed, then it was back to getting rid of everybody again (cause you know... the UNION fought like hell for our jobs *wanking motion*). I had senior people in my shop trying to convince me to vote away my own job because they thought they were going to get an early out package. The only thing supporting that contract did was force some people into early retirement, cause those who wanted to stay in their title group to scatter to higher cost living areas (most as part time), or force people to start their occupational seniority over to stay local. Some, like myself, saw the writing on the wall and started to work on an exit plan.

We had a company that wanted to get rid of our shop, a UNION president pushing a concessionary contract (and cutting under the table deals to save his own ass) and senior employees looking to use junior employees as sacrificial lambs so they could get a retirement package.

With the company, the UNION, and fellow employees all working against me (the perfect trifecta) how did I stand a chance?

More to the point how do any of YOU stand a chance? If you want a strong UNION, you (not you personally but you as a group) really need to start supporting each other first. Stop looking at juniority as layoff fodder. Call the UNION out for allowing these early out packages to the detriment of the membership.

For starting out with "I honestly just don't know what to say......"

I will say, "very well said sir!!!"
Agree 100% La Lu

 

[1AA]

I’m not sure how long the Judge will take to make a decision on the lawsuit. I do know when Southwest union was sued by the company within a month they came to agreement! I will not be surprised we have a contract by the new year.

If the association can prove that other factors are in the mix that AA is blaming only the unions then negotiations will continue at their current pace. Nothing is fair today. You may prove your point and have backing from other work groups but this judge has a record of siding with management. So disappointing.

 

[NYer]

So since timmy boy won't answer me in the other thread, has the OTS numbers increased or decreased since the TRO was ordered? And the co. said the refusal to work O/T; did any of this change as well??

Yes. According to the submission for the Permanent Injunction on June 26th, the Company claims the delays related to the alleged illegal activities have actually become worse.

 

[Kev3188]

It's so nice as of late to come on this forum without the insults and stupidity of non AMT'S trying to hijack and create diversity among ourselves. I hope we can learn from this, ignore the trash talkers so we can have meaningful and informative discussions.

Amen.

 

[swamt]

Yes. According to the submission for the Permanent Injunction on June 26th, the Company claims the delays related to the alleged illegal activities have actually become worse.

Ours did too NYer. As long as they are legit write-ups there is nothing anybody can do. And trust me the FAA has increased their overview of AA as they did us when our company blamed us. All this just after the company got spanked by the FAA for firing mechs. for writing up cracked fuselage skins. I was shocked to hear SWA trying to pull it off again in such a short time period.
Our numbers continued to increase greatly because of the paperwork in the work packages. They quickly rerouted that paperwork to the heavier hangar maint lines. And then the OTS aircraft stopped. No TRO or even a ruling came down in our case as all 3 (AMFA, company, and the Judge) all saw where the problem lay. Then the Max issue came to light and GK ordered our contract to be done and over with so they could focus our mechanics on the Max's if we were needed for some emergency repairs and maint to get them back into the air, like we always do for them. And that is why we had a contract 2nd T/A to vote on after the weekend of nego with the new guy Kinder getting all done. Just for clarification for others on here as I read some of their misleading postings. It had nothing to do with any kind of job action at SWA by the mechanics that got us a quick contract. It was in fact the Max's issue, and GK ordering it to get done NOW. But I do see where some might think it had something to do with a maint job action, the fact is there was no maint job actions at all.

 

[NYer]

Ours did too NYer. As long as they are legit write-ups there is nothing anybody can do.

The legitimacy of the write-ups isn't what is being argued.

It's the concerted effort to slow down the fixes which in turn become delays and cancellations.

Seems the focus of the argument with mechanics is that they can't say anything about legit issues. The problem with that argument is the legitimacy isn't the problem. The Company isn't arguing the maintenance work isn't necessary or frivolous, it's just intentionally slow.

 

[1AA]

The legitimacy of the write-ups isn't what is being argued.

It's the concerted effort to slow down the fixes which in turn become delays and cancellations.

Seems the focus of the argument with mechanics is that they can't say anything about legit issues. The problem with that argument is the legitimacy isn't the problem. The Company isn't arguing the maintenance work isn't necessary or frivolous, it's just intentionally slow.

Safety takes time because accidents happen fast. I'm not saying stop and take a break every 5 minutes but rushing a job to get it done quickly to make schedule or avoid crew time outs will lead to mistakes and bad judgment calls. This is where an experienced work force thrives. Give us the proper tools and time to do it right.

 

[conehead777]

The legitimacy of the write-ups isn't what is being argued.

It's the concerted effort to slow down the fixes which in turn become delays and cancellations.

Seems the focus of the argument with mechanics is that they can't say anything about legit issues. The problem with that argument is the legitimacy isn't the problem. The Company isn't arguing the maintenance work isn't necessary or frivolous, it's just intentionally slow.

Then the company and judge need to sit in the human factors class that we had to Goto in 91-92 .that was mandatory . And it was a course put out by the FAA for all airlines to put there mechanics thru.

 

[conehead777]

T

Safety takes time because accidents happen fast. I'm not saying stop and take a break every 5 minutes but rushing a job to get it done quickly to make schedule or avoid crew time outs will lead to mistakes and bad judgment calls. This is where an experienced work force thrives. Give us the proper tools and time to do it right.

that is what they said in the human factors class we had to go thru in 91-92-93 somewhere in there

 

[NYer]

Then the company and judge need to sit in the human factors class that we had to Goto in 91-92 .that was mandatory . And it was a course put out by the FAA for all airlines to put there mechanics thru.

It's simple. They have documents, postings, even voice recordings that show certain terminology being used. "Long hot summer" ect. They can date those things and connect other dots to show something is happening.

Then they have statistical arguments of MEL items taking longer to clear, while at the same time less OT and Field Trips being accepted which leads to longer maintenance intervals which lead to late flights or cancellations. They're concentrating on RON and 0700 departures since those have less other issues that can contribute to higher than normal service failures due to maintenance. (weather, crew legality...)

Then you have statements from mechanics saying they're being pressured to not accept OT or Field Trips by Representatives and other employees.

Combine all those things and it paints a picture the Judge could interpret as a job action.

Nowhere is there are any calls or arguments to not write up maintenance issues or not fix them. There is no calls to violate any safety guidelines.

Simply, the Judge will decide if there is enough for him to declare in injunction to compel everyone to get back to normal, whatever normal was prior to the communications shared as evidence of an alleged job action.

Normal isn't what you say, it's what you've done...as a collective.

 

[NYer]

Safety takes time because accidents happen fast. I'm not saying stop and take a break every 5 minutes but rushing a job to get it done quickly to make schedule or avoid crew time outs will lead to mistakes and bad judgment calls. This is where an experienced work force thrives. Give us the proper tools and time to do it right.

No one is arguing to do things faster. Just do them as they were done before, through the normal course.

Mechanics that want to defend the alleged actuons are going to an extreme defense for an argument no one is making.

 

[1AA]

It's simple. They have documents, postings, even voice recordings that show certain terminology being used. "Long hot summer" ect. They can date those things and connect other dots to show something is happening.

Then they have statistical arguments of MEL items taking longer to clear, while at the same time less OT and Field Trips being accepted which leads to longer maintenance intervals which lead to late flights or cancellations. They're concentrating on RON and 0700 departures since those have less other issues that can contribute to higher than normal service failures due to maintenance. (weather, crew legality...)

Then you have statements from mechanics saying they're being pressured to not accept OT or Field Trips by Representatives and other employees.

Combine all those things and it paints a picture the Judge could interpret as a job action.

Nowhere is there are any calls or arguments to not write up maintenance issues or not fix them. There is no calls to violate any safety guidelines.

Simply, the Judge will decide if there is enough for him to declare in injunction to compel everyone to get back to normal, whatever normal was prior to the communications shared as evidence of an alleged job action.

Normal isn't what you say, it's what you've done...as a collective.

Then he should also look at how this new management team ripped apart our maintenance program to bare bones. No QA on B checks as well as no more B checks. Less parts available to properly repair aircraft in a timely manner. Speaking of timely manner we have aircraft on mel's for the duration until the last day. We have aircraft overnighting at maintenance stations that are not being looked at and the ones that are looked at MEL items aren't touched for whatever reason. This leads to delays and cancellations. If guys decide they do not want OT so be it. If guys wont go on a field trip so be it. You will always find a way and some one to get the job done.
I've never heard the union put out information to the membership to turn down overtime and field trips.
Maybe at some stations refusals are higher than others. Maybe at some stations the workloads are heavier. Maybe at some stations the manning does not balance with the workloads. Those stations rely on OT 24/7. I get it but AA is partly to blame for how they changed the maintenance program and the work culture. The association isn't helping either. Both unions dont work together in communicating within themselves and the company.

 

[NYer]

I've never heard the union put out information to the membership to turn down overtime and field trips.
Maybe at some stations refusals are higher than others. Maybe at some stations the workloads are heavier. Maybe at some stations the manning does not balance with the workloads. Those stations rely on OT 24/7. I get it but AA is partly to blame for how they changed the maintenance program and the work culture. The association isn't helping either. Both unions dont work together in communicating within themselves and the company.

Here you go. This is one piece they've submitted for evidence to their allegations.

 

[B737 driver]

Here you go. This is one piece they've submitted for evidence to their allegations.

Boy that was intelligent, good thing they weren't planning a bank robbery!