AFA's Proposed Contribution to Coalition Plan

[UAL777flyer]

Bear,

Yours, and the AFA's, concept of fair is about as skewed as it gets.

 

[GGpillow]

Simply my opinion, but I think you are all missing the point. What is fair, is what the AFA and the Company agree to. Same goes for ALPA and WHQ, IAM and WHQ etc. I admit it IS rather amusing to see you all peering over eachothers shoulders, more worried about making sure the other guy gets screwed as bad as you. Amusing, but also sad, as it's the same attitude that got us here......

 

[mancityfan]

[blockquote]
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On 10/27/2002 6:29:27 PM Bear96 wrote:

Let's at least compare apples and apples here. The equivalent to a pilot's "seat change" for F/As is to be forced from international back to domestic flying-- which will be happening to many of us soon, with all the announcements made this week about pulling out of some international cities and downgauging in others (and probably more announcements to come). That pay difference alone is about 10%, which now brings us to about a 13.6% paycut for many of us, including me, assuming this 3.6% paycut item becomes reality.

Well when you consider the average pilot makes five times the average F/A, and your 37% paycut is only 2.7 times as big as my 13.6% cut, and when you consider my pay is contractually industry average and yours is industry leading, all in all it seems pretty fair to me.

Of course if you ultimately don't like the final proposal you have to vote on, feel free to vote NO and we can both go look for jobs elsewhere. I'll probably find one paying at least as much as, if not more than, what I make now.
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[/blockquote]


This is like banging your head against the wall until you bleed, except less satisfying! Let's see, where to begin?

Apples to apples:

You say that a Captain going back to First Officer is like a F/A going from International to Domestic? WTF? What kind of apples are you talking about? The transition to Captain is one of the biggest events in a pilot's life, and is the pinnacle of his career. It is usually the largest pay raise he/she will EVER get in their career. You must be kidding, right, when you say this is the same as going from two services in 8 hours to one service in four?! You also seem to forget that we STILL have 844 pilots on the street with about a thousand more apparently soon to follow. This caused over 5000 seat movements (or bumps) since 09/11/01, and is about to do the same again. So, almost everyone who is not in the top third of their aircraft's seniority has or will be taking a seat change. Can you honestly, and with a straight face, say we are even CLOSE to talking apples to apples?!


Pilot salary is five times F/A salary:

I won't even argue about whether that statement is even close to true. I have seen the AFA website graphs and have done enough statistical analysis to know there is no point even bothering to debate the issue. I will take it for what it is...a statistic meant to bolster a one-sided argument.

However, that being said, if we BOTH gave the SAME percentage concession, woul that not mean that the pilot would be giving FIVE TIMES AS MUCH AS THE F/A? And this would be insufficient? If the F/A making $40K gave $4K, then the pilot making $200K would be giving $20K. Would this be wrong somehow? Is it not bad enough that I have to pay more tax because of the investment I made in my education, and have to shoulder the burden of the opportunity cost of being in flight school and instructing and the like for years, that I now have to subsidize the laissez faire attitudes of those whose station in life has taken them to a salary level that now requires greater sacrifice by me? Where is this place? Communist China?! I thought the American way was to work from nothing to be something and then to reap some of those rewards. Rather it appears that all the F/As are communists who believe that welfare extends to the private sector and even to the internal workings of this company, although Heaven forbid they should share the burden of taking care of THEIR B Scalers! No, let the rest of us carry their share, and while we are at it, let's make those damned overachieving pilots pay for everything else too! We already (along with the IAM and some of the mgmt folks) paid for your free ride through the ESOP period, when does it all end? When do F/As realize that being a safety professional takes about 7 days of classroom training and an hour in a mock up? And this SHOULD pay what? Funnily enough, I don't care if they pay you $30K or $130K, but I DO care that when it comes to sharing the burden of life in the up and down world of the airlines, the AFA seems to always want to take a pass at the expense of someone else. Looks like this is no different from ANY other negotiation!

As it currently stands, you are suggesting not even including anyone in the first five years of F/A seniority! Now, if you can convince me that the fact that the AFA even HAS a B Scale is ALPA's fault, then I can understand that these F/As deserve some kind of corporate welfare from pilots and others. Until then, I would suggest that the AFA, in its ultimate collective wisdom has determined that THEY have no problems with B Scale, and it serves THEIR purposes to devote SIGNIFICANTLY GREATER corporate resources to the MORE SENIOR F/As. Otherwise, this would be a non-negotiable point at contract time, would it not? I think they call it eating your young in the wild, but then we are all civilized here, right?


Vote No and move on

This really does not bolster your argument for F/As, does it? So you like that pilots are SO specialized that they cannot just up and move on to another similar job? THAT is one of the things that makes them so valuable!

The fact that your education level and lot in life means that you can walk away from one job straight into another of equaly low economic stature does NOT mean you have some special powers. Rather, it is an indication that you have the basic menial skills to do a basic menial job elsewhere. If you can find a job doing less than you do now, for less days every month and for MORE pay, then you are an idiot for staying here. However, I think you will find that life in the Big City is not as rosy as it might have seemed a few years or even months ago. Good luck finding a job that works less than 15 days per month and pays $40K for working 15-20 mins every hour you are there!

I doubt very much that either of us will have to walk the streets for work anytime soon, but should it happen, I know I will land on my feet and my educational degrees will put me ahead of you in short order AGAIN! Funny how the cream always rises to the top, huh?

mancityfan

 

[Bear96]

My goodness, mcf...

And here I thought it was *Flight Attendants* who whined so much.

 

[sumsonic]

rather it appears that all the F/As are communists who believe that welfare extends to the private sector and even to the internal workings of this company

Nah, they're called democrats.