AFA press release. Unhealthy to fly US

[LavMan]

Frugal,

I am not sure you understand what a Union is...I can tell you what it''s not...it''s not about 5 or 10 union leaders....the unions ARE the members. No management want to hear the same retorhic from the same leaders whine and complain. They need to hear from the MEMBERSHIP who ARE the UNION. It takes their envolvement in every issue and every dispute.




PITbull
Pitbull, I could not say it any better. The union is the membership and the memberships has to stop relying on the givers and start giving themselves.

 

[oldcrow]

I had a Captain tell me today that he has started to ask each f/a and his first officer on his initial briefing at the beginning of the trip if they are sick . He said he would remove any crewmember on his flight that was sick . Do crews still get 2 hours pay for show no fly ? If so , then they get sick pay for the trip (-5 hours) plus the 2 hours for show no fly . Now you only have a 3 hour penalty instead of 5 if the Captain removes you from the trip .
Just remembered.......they(management) would probably try to fire you for delaying the trip awaiting replacement crewmember.....oh well .

 

[FrugalFlyer]

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On 6/5/2003 9:01:00 PM PITbull wrote:
Frugal,
I am not sure you understand what a Union is...I can tell you what it''s not...it''s not about 5 or 10 union leaders....the unions ARE the members. No management want to hear the same retorhic from the same leaders whine and complain. They need to hear from the MEMBERSHIP who ARE the UNION. It takes their envolvement in every issue and every dispute.
----------------​

Hi PITbull,

I think I understand what a union is.
Unfortunately, in the majority of the cases, the membership are NOT the union. Whats best for the union is not always the best for the members. A union will always be greedy for more dues paying members, which means more jobs/members earning lower wages instead of higher wages for the current membership.

While LavMan and co-workers are mad as heck at the company for trying to outsource Airbus work, for example, I get the feeling that when push comes to shove, the compnay will have its way with the union (that is at some point there will be some kind of outsourcing of the work).

I don''t know too much about unions in the USA, but here in the Great White North, the only union where the membership are the union would be the auto workers union (CAW). IMHO, most other unions such as the IAM, ALPA, AFA, AMFA, APFA, Teamsters, etc. are ammateurs compared to the autoworkers union in representing the interests of their membership. I know, the auto industry is not the airline industry, I''m just trying to point out that to a semi-casual observer like myself, your union (and LavMans) doesn''t seem to be able to represent/fight for their members as well as they should/could (especially if information picketing is the best they could come up with).

 

[PITbull]

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On 6/5/2003 1013 PM oldcrow wrote:

I had a Captain tell me today that he has started to ask each f/a and his first officer on his initial briefing at the beginning of the trip if they are sick . He said he would remove any crewmember on his flight that was sick . Do crews still get 2 hours pay for show no fly ? If so , then they get sick pay for the trip (-5 hours) plus the 2 hours for show no fly . Now you only have a 3 hour penalty instead of 5 if the Captain removes you from the trip .
Just remembered.......they(management) would probably try to fire you for delaying the trip awaiting replacement crewmember.....oh well .


----------------​

Wish management would have enacted your policy above then what it is now.

The two hour "show no go" is for a trip that cancels through "no fault" of the f/a.

 

[PITbull]

Frugal,

I have to agree with you to an extent...Union members and Union leaderships are not accoustomed to dealing with the NEW Corporate mangement that is being "installed" to combat unions and organizing efforts. I can tell you that AFA, in negotiations was "dumpfounded" and dazed, by the extent of concessions this management was demanding of their employee groups. We, as uniionized workers have become complacent over the last 10-15 years, as we have evolved into labor groups that have been working "synergistically" with management of past that did make every effort to bargain in "good faith" with their unionized workers, speicfically our past management made every attempt to create a balance among the workers and mangement. It had been a very "professional" relationship, and we respected each others' position.

Sadly, the NEW educated management of today, do not value their workers, and Corporate greed and profits are paramount...at all cost.

So, the leadership has to "snap out of their shell shock", and reeducate the membership, that the "platform" has changed. The leadership, too, first has to recognize this. Once this type of mentality premeates throughout unions, we will have a "rebirth"/ "born-again" type of union membership. Unfortunately, Picketing and leafleting is the only "legal" action that a union has to protest, outside of Section 6. Legislation has to change and improve to help the workers of today in the environment we are living in, which will mean Labor needs to get passionately involved with their local and state elections, and throw out the "bums" who do not understand "balance" in our economy with regard to Corporate America, and orgnaized labor's purpose.

With regard to Union dues dollars, the AFA Board of Directors has not voted in an increase of union dues dollars since 1992...11 years ago.

So, not all unions look to raise union dollars, and we do have a strike fund/defense fund for AFA. Now, we have a strike fund for just USAirways f/as that we will fiercely fund over the next 5 years to get ready for a negotiations of 2009. It seems like a long time away, but this is good, cause we need to prepare the membership, mentally, emotionally, and financially.

We have begun the battle.

PS. Marky,

You are trying to pull me in to argue with Bob...I will not argue with our PAX or try to convince them of a union's workers point of view. I should not have to argue it. I got the hint awhile back. We as employees try to provide a pleasant atmosphere,safety, and service for them so they return. Bob stated many threads ago, that he and I have parted company. I took that literally. Bob takes his postion of reality, that either "live to fight another day", or move on...this is Corporate Greed at its finest and live with it". I choose not to take on HIS reality. Some points of view you can never change or even attempt to, as many folks have lived by their beliefs for such a long time, and it works for them...silence, or scheming to get my way, or to get someone fired, won't work for me.....I believe you must have PM him some time ago and got to him to difuse labor, or me.

Bad move.

As far as your comment on being too tired...you don't know me... You have no idea what energy I have. You do not know my accomplishements I have acheived in my lifetime, with many obsticles that could have blocked me...but did not. I am relentless, persistant, and I NEVER TIRE when driven by heart. Those who know me know this well.

 

[MarkMyWords]

Bob,

Excellent post.......

PitBull.....care to comment or are your hands to tired from handing out postcards at the airport yesterday?

 

[MarkMyWords]

Sorry Pity but I don''t converse with Bob, but I do appreciate his points of view. He brings up some very interesting points which I would be intrigued to hear you defend. As I have said many times, I am a gatherer of knowledge, please try to make me see things differently. I honestly don''t think you could have a valid defense for the points that he brings up.

Just call em as I see em.

 

[its_almost_over]

Pitbull,
Touche!!

Markmywords doesn't realize that the position he holds is temporary and as long as management continues *try* to shrink this airline into profitability sooner or later the ax will fall and Markmywords will be amongst the ranks of the unemployed, unfortunately because of Markmywords cohorts and their lack of insight, individuals such as you and I wont be far behind

As far Pineybob, he's here for one reason and that's to stir the pot. He's a passenger who has no idea what we as employees are having to deal with on a daily basis. Sure, he may read about our deteriorating working conditions or the financial problems many of US are having to endure but does he really feel our pain, how can he when he's on the outside looking in? With that thought in mind do you honestly think he cares what happens to US Airways or its employees?

If and when U ever closes its doors for the last time Bob may be inconvenienced but he'll still have his paycheck coming in but for the many of the employees of U they'll lose everything they have ever worked for ... yes that includes you Markmywords.

Bob this is meant for you personally ... you have given both Management and the Employees many entertaining moments on this board but the problems were (US Airways Employees) facing are OUR problems. You have the right to post here but why not do the right the thing and bow out of this forum gracefully. We don't need the help of outsiders, if we did we'd ask for it!

There wont be any need in trying to come back and attempt to slam me for my post this will be the last time I view this particular thread.

Once again Pitbul, excellent post, keep up the good work

 

[ClueByFour]

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On 6/6/2003 851 PM its_almost_over wrote:

Bob this is meant for you personally ... you have given both Management and the Employees many entertaining moments on this board but the problems were (US Airways Employees) facing are OUR problems. You have the right to post here but why not do the right the thing and bow out of this forum gracefully. We don''t need the help of outsiders, if we did we''d ask for it!


There wont be any need in trying to come back and attempt to slam me for my post this will be the last time I view this particular thread.

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I certainly hope you don''t go and bury the proverbial head in the sand without considering a few things:

1. Last I checked, this was/is usaviation.com not airlinecrew.net and therefore what Bob has to post is as relavent as any post from a US employee or anyone else.

2. As for not asking for outside help, a trip thru Chapter 11 with RSA''s money followed by a large loan backed by United States taxpayers certainly suggests otherwise, eh?

I think the problem is that Bob call things as he sees them without trying to gloss things over to protect the delicate interest groups on this board. I think that bothers a lot of people, particularly when Bob offends one''s sense of "agenda."

 

[MarkMyWords]

IAO.....

What you fail to realize is that I accepted long ago that my job here was only temporary. To remain in the game I have adapted and changed as needed. When faced with adversity, I used that in my favor to gain additonal work experience. Those new experiences where then utilized to gain positions within the company that I wanted. I have been through 2 station closures, 9 job function changes and 2 promotions in my 16 years here. I could have allowed myself to get mired down and bitter about those things, but instead I used those work experiences to my advantage. It is about prospective.

Knowing that my job here is a priviledge and not a right, has allowed me to become flexible in my long term goals and how I live my life. Knowing that our company faced very difficult financial challenges in 2002, I chose to plan accordingly. I made decisions and plans that allowed me to adjust to what ever job circumstances came my way. Yes, I am very fortunate that I was able to plan for those things and realize I am in a much better position then most. All I have ever wanted to do is work in aviation, but if it were gone tomorrow at least I know I am ready for what lies ahead.

As for asking Bob to leave this forum, I think that is very short sighted of you. I may not always agree with what people like Bob, Chip or even PitBull have to say, but they always make you step back from a situation and and look at it in a different light. Just because you may not agree with someones prospective on things, doesn't mean they should leave. Open your mind to new and different ideas. Taking a look at things from a different prospective doesn't mean you have to agree.

 

[delldude]

----------------
While LavMan and co-workers are mad as heck at the company for trying to outsource Airbus work, for example, I get the feeling that when push comes to shove, the compnay will have its way with the union (that is at some point there will be some kind of outsourcing of the work).

, your union (and LavMans) doesn''t seem to be able to represent/fight for their members as well as they should/could (especially if information picketing is the best they could come up with).


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union is only as strong as their members,don''t forget that.they can''t represent what they don''t have in support.
as for this outsource thing,i''m wondering now if the iam called for a walkout if they''d have the support.i already see people freaking about losing their severance if we''d walk. some say"well if its only the airbuses"-yea,this time.....

 

[wench]

Is it PineyBob,
or WhineyBob?

 

[wench]

Alas!
For I am being nice.

 

[PITbull]

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On 6/7/2003 6:18:30 AM MarkMyWords wrote:

IAO.....

What you fail to realize is that I accepted long ago that my job here was only temporary. To remain in the game I have adapted and changed as needed. When faced with adversity, I used that in my favor to gain additonal work experience. Those new experiences where then utilized to gain positions within the company that I wanted. I have been through 2 station closures, 9 job function changes and 2 promotions in my 16 years here. I could have allowed myself to get mired down and bitter about those things, but instead I used those work experiences to my advantage. It is about prospective.

Knowing that my job here is a priviledge and not a right, has allowed me to become flexible in my long term goals and how I live my life. Knowing that our company faced very difficult financial challenges in 2002, I chose to plan accordingly. I made decisions and plans that allowed me to adjust to what ever job circumstances came my way. Yes, I am very fortunate that I was able to plan for those things and realize I am in a much better position then most. All I have ever wanted to do is work in aviation, but if it were gone tomorrow at least I know I am ready for what lies ahead.

As for asking Bob to leave this forum, I think that is very short sighted of you. I may not always agree with what people like Bob, Chip or even PitBull have to say, but they always make you step back from a situation and and look at it in a different light. Just because you may not agree with someones prospective on things, doesn''t mean they should leave. Open your mind to new and different ideas. Taking a look at things from a different prospective doesn''t mean you have to agree.

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Mark,

There, you just placed the last piece of the "jig saw puzzle"....

Your statments above : "just because you may not agree with someones prospective on things, doesn''t mean they should leave."

That is precisely why I do not leave my job or U. I voice my opinions to hopfully elecit change to improve working conditions for our group.

 

[PITbull]

Mistake...sorry.