Afa E-line

[USFlyer]

Sky High, unfortunately the industry is coming full- circle from the 70's. The flight attendant job was not intended as a career, especially one that could support a family. This is evident now in Jet Blue's F/A hiring practices, with renewable ( or non-renewable) terms of employment. As long as young people are willing to work for fairly low entry-level wages for a while, while they get to travel and get paid for it, the legacy carriers cannot continue to pay wages that are nearly twice as much.

Bingo! I'm friends with several jetBlue F/As, all of whom are in their 20s. This is exactly how they view their time with jetBlue ... something to do while they figure out what to do with their lives, enjoying the travel perks and living in NYC or LA while at it. Not one of them expects to support a family or make a career out of it.

 

[firstamendment]

Bingo! I'm friends with several jetBlue F/As, all of whom are in their 20s. This is exactly how they view their time with jetBlue ... something to do while they figure out what to do with their lives, enjoying the travel perks and living in NYC or LA while at it. Not one of them expects to support a family or make a career out of it.

[post="188438"][/post]​

Hum....that sounds vaguely familiar....oh yeah, that's what I and many of my co-workers said....18 years ago!!!

 

[USFlyer]

jetBlue also seems to identify certain F/As to "move up", so to speak. One of my friends keeps getting asked to be an instructor and stop flying, but he likes being on the road and so has opted not to take the opportunity. Not sure how US handles this, though.

 

[usfliboi]

You can bet , this also afa CYA ing..... Making sure thay do everything they can do... The judge isnt concerned about the companys past pratice or its willingness to talk. Where we are, is where we are. Its his job to prevent it from closing and everyone loosing....

 

[UseYourHead]

PitBull,

You do not know what the judge will rule, just as the ALPA legal folks do not. If I was going to bank on who was educated, trained, and backed by years of experience YOU would be the VERY LAST QUALIFED PERSON to seek advice from.

You are about to find out, and my guess is that you are leading your fellow FA's to slaughter. Do you believe that a BK judge thinks you are worth one more penny than a JetBlue or America West FA? Get real, it is a cold world out there, and you are about to be handed a chilled piece of humble pie.

Good luck in court, your going to need it. You should be going into this with your eyes open and picking and choosing what is important to your memebership.

You are ahead of the lowcost airlines at 23% paycut, you take a 50% cut if you went to JetBlue...assuming of course you can even get an interview, and trick them into hiring you.

Get real!

At least with the judge we are only looking at a pay reduction at worse. My opinion of ALPA advisors and ALPA legal...weak, very very weak. Not worth their money....They have told your ALPA MEC (according to USA320) that the judge would impose this 100%. How do they know, what is there sphere of reference? Hunch? Inclination? Fortune cookie?

:down:

[post="188213"][/post]​

 

[Light Years]

Sky High, unfortunately the industry is coming full- circle from the 70's. The flight attendant job was not intended as a career, especially one that could support a family. This is evident now in Jet Blue's F/A hiring practices, with renewable ( or non-renewable) terms of employment. As long as young people are willing to work for fairly low entry-level wages for a while, while they get to travel and get paid for it, the legacy carriers cannot continue to pay wages that are nearly twice as much.

[post="188432"][/post]​

Oh, bullsh*t. Give those JetBlue stews a couple of years. That's what they always said about Southwest too and now they have a better contract than the scarey mean old US F/As.

I'm a young person and I'm not willing to work for terrible wages. In this economy, 20-30K, even 40K when you've given 20 years, is pretty low, particularly when you relate it to other higher paying, entry level jobs that require far less responsibility and time. With airlines trying to pay and recruit at F/As at sub-Wal-Mart wages, they will suffer in service and reliability, not to mention safety.

US Airways F/As are just senior. A starting US F/A, if there was one, starts at $20, same as JetBlue, except that JetBlue gets $30 once they go over a certain amount of hours a month and US does not. You can't compare the two since all of US's remaining F/As are senior to JetBlue- they were all hired before the airline even existed.

Since B6 is only five years old, you can't really talk about thier F/As who are just "doing it for a couple years, finding themselves"- whatever. EVERYONE says that. Check back in ten years.

You can try to turn any kind of job into a frivolous, temporary one, but it won't work under a seniority driven system, where the lifestyle improves over time, or a job as addictive as the flight attendant profession.

 

[PITbull]

PitBull,

You do not know what the judge will rule, just as the ALPA legal folks do not. If I was going to bank on who was educated, trained, and backed by years of experience YOU would be the VERY LAST QUALIFED PERSON to seek advice from.

You are about to find out, and my guess is that you are leading your fellow FA's to slaughter. Do you believe that a BK judge thinks you are worth one more penny than a JetBlue or America West FA? Get real, it is a cold world out there, and you are about to be handed a chilled piece of humble pie.

Good luck in court, your going to need it. You should be going into this with your eyes open and picking and choosing what is important to your memebership.

You are ahead of the lowcost airlines at 23% paycut, you take a 50% cut if you went to JetBlue...assuming of course you can even get an interview, and trick them into hiring you.

Get real!

[post="188464"][/post]​

UYH,

Did I ask you your opinion? Did I ask ALPA's legal opinion. I wouldn't ask them their opinion on a disputed parking fine.

Your statment above regarding 23% cut and Jet Blue just shows you how stupid you are. You need to investigate before your open your trap.

 

[Light Years]

UYH,

Did I ask you your opinion? Did I ask ALPA's legal opinion. I wouldn't ask them their opinion on a disputed parking fine.

You statment above regaring 23% cut and Jet Blue just shows you how stupid you are. You need to investigate before you open you trap.

[post="188473"][/post]​

Amen!

And the 23% pay cut wil put many BELOW LCC wages.

Will the judge really feel that the US AFA members, who are very senior and work in the highest cost of living part of the country, are worth LESS than those other airline's employees?

Also, if they get down to comparing, the company has no leg to stand on. Talk it up all you want, but US Airways is a high-cost, international, domestic, and regional network airline that has more in common with America, United, Delta, Northwest, and Continental than JetBlue. The company intends to remain a multiple fleet, international, network airline focused on the highest cost cities in the nation and very short stage lengths. They have no intention of becoming a single fleet point to point low fare carrier serving secondary markets. If they are going to compare you have to compare with what you're closest to. America West, possibly, but they cannot compare themselves to a JetBlue.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

Amen!

And the 23% pay cut wil put many BELOW LCC wages.

Will the judge really feel that the US AFA members, who are very senior and work in the highest cost of living part of the country, are worth LESS than those other airline's employees?

Also, if they get down to comparing, the company has no leg to stand on. Talk it up all you want, but US Airways is a high-cost, international, domestic, and regional network airline that has more in common with America, United, Delta, Northwest, and Continental than JetBlue. The company intends to remain a multiple fleet, international, network airline focused on the highest cost cities in the nation and very short stage lengths. They have no intention of becoming a single fleet point to point low fare carrier serving secondary markets. If they are going to compare you have to compare with what you're closest to. America West, possibly, but they cannot compare themselves to a JetBlue.

[post="188476"][/post]​

I think they have to convince the judge and creditors that they have a new idea that will work. Getting from here to there is likely to be very bumpy for everyone. Saying 'we'll be like legacy 'X' is not what they are saying and is likely not to be very convincing since 'X' is losing money. They are not saying we'll be likely LCC 'Y' because becoming 'Y' is next to impossible AND there won't be room in the market for more 'Y'. So U is saying we'll become 'Z' If U employees want to work for 'Z' then they'll have to make some pretty hefty sacrifices. Or they can move on, or they can stand on principle and watch it all blow away. I think all are reasonable alternatives. What I think are not well founded approaches:

a) thinking that refusing something along the lines of a 14% paycut for AFA is likely to result in better pay rates (hey I just don't believe that's likely regardless of the somebody's guess about the mood of the judge.)

B) refusing to cooperate with the intention of doing U in is likely to result in protecting the profession. (The current in the opposite direction is WAY to strong for now and the mid-term future)

when I read PitBull... I get lots of the reasoning in a and b. Choosing to be hardass is fine... but be realistic... lol it reminds me of Bushisms.... seemingly principled but really out of touch with reality.

But, with all sincerity... best of luck.

 

[firstamendment]

How many have read the lawyer's brief? Tomorrow is the deadline. Going to court is not about anything more than showing facts that show the company to be unreasonable. The lawyers have past cases that all lawyers AND judges use for president. At this point what does it matter?

 

[firstamendment]

PitBull,



You are about to find out, and my guess is that you are leading your fellow FA's to slaughter. Do you believe that a BK judge thinks you are worth one more penny than a JetBlue or America West FA? Get real, it is a cold world out there, and you are about to be handed a chilled piece of humble pie.

[post="188464"][/post]​

UYH
Stop and read what you are saying. Do you REALLY think the JB f/a's will be willing to continue making what they make after 18 years? Regardless of what you think, many, many, many will stay for a long time for the same hundreds of reasons the rest of the thousands of us have stayed..

AND, do you think any employee anywhere whose employer honors longevity should give their pay increases back to match a competing upstart who pays 30-50% less? If that is the case, all people should make the same salary all the time no matter the experience, skill level, job performance, or longevity.

You're being silly <_<

 

[RowUnderDCA]

How many have read the lawyer's brief? Tomorrow is the deadline. Going to court is not about anything more than showing facts that show the company to be unreasonable. The lawyers have past cases that all lawyers AND judges use for president. At this point what does it matter?

[post="188489"][/post]​

What's the docket number?

Don't bother... I got lucky.

Found it... .it's 335.