AA Terminating 777 Leases

[twaokc]

eolesen,

There are a number of "Initiatives", that AA could utilize, that could keep them out of BK, and keep the cash. A LOT of "this" goes back to (uncle) Bobby's prognostication, years ago.
o Reduce Mainline domestic SIGNIFICANTLY

o DO NOT sell A/E, arm them with a fleet of Ejets.

o Offer an Early out to the AMT/FSC and F/A groups(with a guarantee that retiree medical, and pensions remain Intact ! (They would be lining up for miles, to "get out" !!!!!!!! )

o Get a "deal" from APA over the Ejets ! (No deal, then BK would lie SOLELY on them, like in "bye-bye Pilot pensions". They'd ####/Cry and Moan, but in the end....a DEAL)

(Back to RLC)

o Keep Mainline employees in HUB/Focus cities ONLY(Example east coast) BOS/JFK/LGA/EWR/DCA/MCO/MIA

o If they can,t keep contract M/E...close MCI.

o As the a/c leases expire...GIVE EM' BACK !!!!!

o (you won't like this but😉 Replace the A-300's/767's with A-330's( No delivery wait time)



??????????

Bears,

You must hyave some good stuff to smoke up there in New England so early in the morning.

Seriously, what you say is correct.

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

Thank you.....Thats just a few things up their sleeve.... BK is not in the plan.....

LOL, you not be smoking NHBBs stuff!!! LOL, I am so glad that most of you are now in agreement with what I have been saying for so long now... IT is like the fairy waved her wand two nights ago at the stroke of midnight and you all WOKE UP!!! LOL LOL LOL, I love it when you see things my way, as for you StrAAight, AMR will post more losses before DAL, UAL, NWA, and US The first ones to enter BK will be JBLU, Skybus, AMR and CAL, lets not forget your debtload and wages including your pensions and your fleet, which is old old old.... A BK could solve many tangled problems for AMR.. Or if AMR enters BK first b/f other legacys, the other legacy could offer up money and buy them in pieces to knock them out of the way..

 

[JFK777]

777's are hard to replace to Asia, no other plane can fly to Dehli, Shanghai or Tokyo. Triple Sevens have trememdous revenue in Cargo & F-class to/from EZE and GRU. The 777 is the right plane at this time in AA's fleet, they need more of them. 777LR anyone ?

 

[eolesen]

Please note that some of these are devil's advocate responses... thus, a little more blunt and heartless than usual....

o Reduce Mainline domestic SIGNIFICANTLY

Yep. That worked so well for Pan Am...

Reducing mainline would simply alienate people like me who don't want to be flying Brand X, which then would make me less likely to be paying $1/mile to fly AA longhaul international...

o DO NOT sell A/E, arm them with a fleet of Ejets.

Can't arm them with Ejets under the APA scope clause. Can't get rid of the scope clause, either. So, Eagle is stuck with a crappy fleet of jungle jets and a relatively low cap on the number of 70 seaters they can operate.

o Offer an Early out to the AMT/FSC and F/A groups(with a guarantee that retiree medical, and pensions remain Intact ! (They would be lining up for miles, to "get out" !!!!!!!! )

Why? They can simply cut the benefits in bankruptcy, and it won't cost them a dime.

o Get a "deal" from APA over the Ejets ! (No deal, then BK would lie SOLELY on them, like in "bye-bye Pilot pensions". They'd ####/Cry and Moan, but in the end....a DEAL)

Doubt it. The new leadership of APA's scorched earth policy took them past the point of being able to save face here.

o Keep Mainline employees in HUB/Focus cities ONLY(Example east coast) BOS/JFK/LGA/EWR/DCA/MCO/MIA

Well, it's slowly becoming that...

o If they can,t keep contract M/E...close MCI.

Why? If you need to close a base, it's AFW. It's newer and more marketable to third party MRO's or another carrier. Once the greybeards at MCI actually retire, there won't be a rush of people looking to move there, so they'll be able to hire off the street at a lot lower rate of pay. AFW suffers to some degree by being in DFW's shadow, both in terms of seniority and in terms of operationally.

Having too much of your operation based in one state could wind up being a liability, and it's hard to dispute AA's being a little too dependent on what happens in North Texas. Missouri clearly wants (and needs) the jobs and will fight harder to keep them.

o As the a/c leases expire...GIVE EM' BACK !!!!!

OK, but did you look at how long some of these leases run?... 15 years with some of the Mad Dogs...

o (you won't like this but😉 Replace the A-300's/767's with A-330's( No delivery wait time)

The Boeing shell costs more, but it's still the better aircraft. They'd be better off replacing them with 777's for crewing commonality, range, and economy. You don't see 330's doing a route like LAX-SYD or ORD-HKG without a fuel stop... It might work for a domestic widebody, but AA needs more flexibility. Plus, the Boeing tails stay attached...

 

[FWAAA]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The ONLY thing that really tweaks my curiosity, is the almost $7B in cash ?????????

Bears, while I agree with you generally, your cash estimate is a little too optimistic. Two weeks ago in the Eagle Eye, AMR estimated that the year end cash balance would be about $4.8 billion, including about $450 million of restricted cash. That means the unrestricted cash is about $4.35 billion. Not too shabby, but nowhere near $7 billion. Of course, that includes about $900 million of debt payments in the fourth quarter. My guess is that net debt is gonna be way down when the 2007 financials are released.

Big problem for AMR continues to be the old fuel hogs (A300s, MD-80s, 767s).

Bankruptcy may yet happen at AMR, but not right away. As long as cash flow stays positive, AMR can fund high fuel prices for quite a while. Maybe long enough to allow many of those leases to naturally expire instead of filing Ch 11 to break them.

 

[StraaightTaalk]

LOL, you not be smoking NHBBs stuff!!! LOL, I am so glad that most of you are now in agreement with what I have been saying for so long now... IT is like the fairy waved her wand two nights ago at the stroke of midnight and you all WOKE UP!!! LOL LOL LOL, I love it when you see things my way, as for you StrAAight, AMR will post more losses before DAL, UAL, NWA, and US The first ones to enter BK will be JBLU, Skybus, AMR and CAL, lets not forget your debtload and wages including your pensions and your fleet, which is old old old.... A BK could solve many tangled problems for AMR.. Or if AMR enters BK first b/f other legacys, the other legacy could offer up money and buy them in pieces to knock them out of the way..

Dont Touch the Ugly sure has a lot of time on her hands to worry about AA.

What a joke...

Get some help.

 

[MCI transplant]

eolesen,

There are a number of "Initiatives", that AA could utilize, that could keep them out of BK, and keep the cash. A LOT of "this" goes back to (uncle) Bobby's prognostication, years ago.
o Reduce Mainline domestic SIGNIFICANTLY

o DO NOT sell A/E, arm them with a fleet of Ejets.

o Offer an Early out to the AMT/FSC and F/A groups(with a guarantee that retiree medical, and pensions remain Intact ! (They would be lining up for miles, to "get out" !!!!!!!! )

o Get a "deal" from APA over the Ejets ! (No deal, then BK would lie SOLELY on them, like in "bye-bye Pilot pensions". They'd ####/Cry and Moan, but in the end....a DEAL)

(Back to RLC)

o Keep Mainline employees in HUB/Focus cities ONLY(Example east coast) BOS/JFK/LGA/EWR/DCA/MCO/MIA

o If they can,t keep contract M/E...close MCI.

o As the a/c leases expire...GIVE EM' BACK !!!!!

o (you won't like this but😉 Replace the A-300's/767's with A-330's( No delivery wait time)



??????????

<_< ----- Bears! Why is everyone so intent on closing MCI? Of the three Major Bases, MCI costs AA less per sq.ft. than ether AFW, or TUL! AFW has six Docks, and is costing AA, what? $78 mill. @ year to Uncle Ross! MCI has fourteen, and costs AA less than $5mill.@year! An early out would take care of the Senior employee question. But do you really want to do that? AA gets more productivity, per man hour, out of these "old men" than either AFW, or TUL! That's a direct quote from Redding himself! There are resources here that are either standing ideal, or underutilized! Engine test cells standing ideal! A fully enclosed wet Dock, that was used for stripping and panting Aircraft, with the majority of it's EPA permits still in tact. We have an Auto clave. Not as big as TUL's, but still underutilized! Our two Supper Bays (Docks) were originally designed to handel 747 Overhaul, are in the process of being renovated. Our work force is now doing work that AFW/TUL can't handel, or don't want! Just finished a fuselage repair on a damaged MD80 that JFK said they couldn't do! Just finished up doing the CIP on the 763's, that after AFW finished the first one they said they didn't want any part of! When we were changing MD80 windows do to delimitation, ORD ferried an aircraft back to TUL for three windows because "they couldn't handel it!" Our line changed out fifty five on one aircraft and still made schedule in the mourning! And the list goes on, and on!

 

[Maark767]

LOL, you not be smoking NHBBs stuff!!! LOL, I am so glad that most of you are now in agreement with what I have been saying for so long now... IT is like the fairy waved her wand two nights ago at the stroke of midnight and you all WOKE UP!!! LOL LOL LOL, I love it when you see things my way, as for you StrAAight, AMR will post more losses before DAL, UAL, NWA, and US The first ones to enter BK will be JBLU, Skybus, AMR and CAL, lets not forget your debtload and wages including your pensions and your fleet, which is old old old.... A BK could solve many tangled problems for AMR.. Or if AMR enters BK first b/f other legacys, the other legacy could offer up money and buy them in pieces to knock them out of the way..

I can just see you saying that statement a million miles a minute....and boy that sure is a lot of hot air coming out of who knows where...

 

[local 12 proud]

<_< ----- Bears! Why is everyone so intent on closing MCI? Of the three Major Bases, MCI costs AA less per sq.ft. than ether AFW, or TUL! AFW has six Docks, and is costing AA, what? $78 mill. @ year to Uncle Ross! MCI has fourteen, and costs AA less than $5mill.@year! An early out would take care of the Senior employee question. But do you really want to do that? AA gets more productivity, per man hour, out of these "old men" than either AFW, or TUL! That's a direct quote from Redding himself! There are resources here that are either standing ideal, or underutilized! Engine test cells standing ideal! A fully enclosed wet Dock, that was used for stripping and panting Aircraft, with the majority of it's EPA permits still in tact. We have an Auto clave. Not as big as TUL's, but still underutilized! Our two Supper Bays (Docks) were originally designed to handel 747 Overhaul, are in the process of being renovated. Our work force is now doing work that AFW/TUL can't handel, or don't want! Just finished a fuselage repair on a damaged MD80 that JFK said they couldn't do! Just finished up doing the CIP on the 763's, that after AFW finished the first one they said they didn't want any part of! When we were changing MD80 windows do to delimitation, ORD ferried an aircraft back to TUL for three windows because "they couldn't handel it!" Our line changed out fifty five on one aircraft and still made schedule in the mourning! And the list goes on, and on!

Yea I've seen first hand the superior work coming from MCI.

TWA's MD80 fleet was much newer than AA's yet they are/were in a heck of alot worse shape than AA's...You may be able to kick-em out the door at record pace but that does'nt mean the product is superior!

 

[MAH4546]

If AMR is well prepared for that, then I guess I don't see how. Sure, they've got a lower debt load than they did three years ago, but there are still serious systemic issues with regard to labor costs and fleet mix, and they've got the most dysfunctional alliance situation possible when compared to Skyteam and Star Alliance (no immunity with BA and aside from QF, relatively weak partners in Asia and South America).

What on earth are you talking about? oneWorld is the only alliance with a South American member (Varig is no longer in Star). They are, by a huge margin, with the four LAN airlines, American, and Iberia, the strongest alliance in South America. No other alliance can hold a candle. With Qantas, they are the strongest alliance in Australia. With Royal Jordanian, they are the only alliance with a Middle Eastern carrier. With Dragonair, they offer extensive service throughout all of China, and with JAL and Cathay, Asia is very well covered.

OneWorld's weakness comes not in its network, but in the fact that its carriers aren't as tightly aligned as other alliances, something that is slowly changing, as noted by the recent ATI application of AA/IB/AY/RJ/MA.

[quote post='557840' date='Jan 3 2008, 03:50 PM']777's are hard to replace to Asia, no other plane can fly to Dehli, Shanghai or Tokyo. Triple Sevens have trememdous revenue in Cargo & F-class to/from EZE and GRU. The 777 is the right plane at this time in AA's fleet, they need more of them. 777LR anyone ?[/quote]

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

<_< ----- Our work force is now doing work that AFW/TUL can't handel, or don't want! Just finished a fuselage repair on a damaged MD80 that JFK said they couldn't do! Just finished up doing the CIP on the 763's, that after AFW finished the first one they said they didn't want any part of!

Not true MCI eggplant. The CIP mods were sent to MCI because 767-200 C-checks coming out of MCI weren't being accomplished to AA's standards. AA figured you guys at MCI couldn't mess up a mod too bad and that's why the CIP went there. We at AFW got your C-check "specials" in return. Corrosion everywhere,grey powder coming out at the seams,rivets with popped heads,etc. We even have had to fix your CIP mods. Wires routed wrong,seats at the wrong stations. One of your CIP modded aircraft had an inflight cabin-cargo fire because some knucklehead accidently drilled thru some wires while installing some brackets. I shouldn't call the guy a knucklehead. He at least reported what had happened to your management. Then your management heros said it's ok, no repairs needed. We have the documents to prove it too.

 

[Boomer]

Perhaps, but a few facts....

First of all, nobody interested in buying AC of AA's vintage right now. The 762's are quite long in the tooth, as are the bulk of the 757 and 763s. The 737's are needed for their fuel economy, as are the 777's.


...

MOD NOTE: DO NOT QUOTE LENGTHY POSTS IN YOUR REPLIES--ONLY THE SENTENCES YOU WISH TO COMMENT ON SHOULD BE QUOTED--THE MAJORITY OF THIS QUOTE HAS BEEN REMOVED.


All,

During late February, 2003, at a Local 562 E-Board Telcon with a current TWU International VP:

Offered the deal of a "one station agreement" for all of OH based on the value of an AFW/TAESEL spinoff coupled with an integration of AE into AA with a "cramdown" of the MD-80 Fleet into top AE wage rates for the percentage of ALL AA EMPLOYEES that fleet comprised. If one overhaul base is to be spun-off, AFW is the Queen as there are no EPA encumbrances and all of the facilities are modernized.

The deal required that we use STL as the base with MCIE as primary OH for an integrated structure designed to go head to head with the LCCs' using RDU and SJC as end points with a fleet of some 380 MD-80s' as an integral part of a CONUS oriented routing below a price point the LCCs' could capture; going head to head instead of running away.

Secondarily was a requirement for volunteers that would agree to the reduction in wages for infiltration of the new cost structure into the markets of CLT, RDU, ATL, CVG, MDW for the purpose of driving the weak from the field of play.

The TWU INTL was horrified and asked if we had really considered the ramifications of such an agreement; my reply was to the effect that if we expected our people to endure wartime concessions, we needed to be ready to go to war. Give those that suffered and those that volunteered an objective they could work towards; drive the inept and incompetent from the field and force Congress to either re-regulate or stand aside while we recaptured our former wage rates in a field severely depopulated.

I fear that the TWU forwarded the plAAn without the guarantees, as is usual, and now the CompAAny will get through BK what we proposed some 5 years ago with no cost.

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

What on earth are you talking about? oneWorld is the only alliance with a South American member (Varig is no longer in Star). They are, by a huge margin, with the four LAN airlines, American, and Iberia, the strongest alliance in South America. No other alliance can hold a candle. With Qantas, they are the strongest alliance in Australia. With Royal Jordanian, they are the only alliance with a Middle Eastern carrier. With Dragonair, they offer extensive service throughout all of China, and with JAL and Cathay, Asia is very well covered.

OneWorld's weakness comes not in its network, but in the fact that its carriers aren't as tightly aligned as other alliances, something that is slowly changing, as noted by the recent ATI application of AA/IB/AY/RJ/MA.

LOL, OOOHHH AHHHH a south american member... LOL LOL LOL.... ASia and India is where its at... The Star has it wrapped up with all the important asia players and Air India... As well as having Emirates as a Regional Alliance partner.. Also having TACA and TAM is an advantage to the Star and UAL .... I will just do a quick brush through of members of Star, so you will know in the future, Air Canada, Air New Zealand, ANA, Asiana, Austrian, BMI, LOT Polish, Lufthansa, Scandanavian, Singapore, South African, SpanAir, Swiss, TAP, THAI, United, USAIRWAYS, Adria, Blue 1, Croatia, as well as Air China, and Shanghai Airways and Air India which just joined.. The Star Regional Alliances are as follows, AIR DOLOMITI, Air One, Aloha, Continental Connection, Emirates, Great lakes, Island, QATAR, TACA, TAM, and Virgin Blue..... Your statement stands strongly corrected, UAL and the STAR are a far superior allinaces to AA and One World (by the way, what a name!! They just need to add government to the end of it... I bet Bush came up with it all on his own.. LOL ))) ... Good Good Luck convincing yourselves though, nice try....

 

[whatkindoffreshhell]

Air Dolomitti --- ah yes, how could we overlook that fine carrier!

Once again you have proved you are no ordinary female F/A!

Ever heard of Jet Airways or Kingfisher?

 

[donttouchthebeauty]

Air Dolomitti --- ah yes, how could we overlook that fine carrier!

Once again you have proved you are no ordinary female F/A!

Ever heard of Jet Airways or Kingfisher?

But of course, ever heard heard of Emirates or Qatar???? I would guess not considering you probably dont have high speed or WIFI in your single wide in Fort Worth..... Godd try though!!! LOL LOL LOL... What a mess you guys are, you will never get anywhere until you get in touch with realtiy... SAD..