Aa Shows Solid Progress
- Thread starter WorldTraveler
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WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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L10,
The RLA does not govern mergers. Labor and management have to agree that a merger is in the best interests of both groups and move to make that happen. Unions certainly complicate mergers but don't prevent them. The additional difficulty presented by labor certainly gives an advantage to Delta which has only to work with their pilots to obtain a labor agreement, esp. since ALPA represents most airline pilots and they have fairly standard merger language. Nonetheless, in distress labor can become fairly ameniable to change.
The RLA does not govern mergers. Labor and management have to agree that a merger is in the best interests of both groups and move to make that happen. Unions certainly complicate mergers but don't prevent them. The additional difficulty presented by labor certainly gives an advantage to Delta which has only to work with their pilots to obtain a labor agreement, esp. since ALPA represents most airline pilots and they have fairly standard merger language. Nonetheless, in distress labor can become fairly ameniable to change.
The mystery charges have to do with the return of leased TWA planes, the engine work cost less than expected and the other charge (really a reversal of a previous charge) has to do with the expected cost of pilot fouloughs being less than expected. No government grants in '04, if you look closely at the income statement you will see the the government grants are from '03 and not '04.
NewHampshire Black Bears
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Mike,mweiss said:
Geez, I never realized what a "perfect fit" NW and CO would make.
(your right about the fleet UN-commonality)
IF they did "get together", except for the fleet, NW(being the survivor),could meld this "thing" without a lot of trouble.
They would wind up with DTW,EWR,IAH and NRT as maxi-hubs(bye-bye MEM/CLE), and have MSP as mini-hub(similiar to AA's JFK)
NW has the FEWEST employees per stage length. Thats a plus
The pilots are both ALPA, so it would be a straight merge.
The AMT's are DIFFERENT unions, a plus for NW AMT's, VERY BAD for CO,
The F/a's(I think) are in a different union, a PLUS for NW's F/A's, BAD for CO,
Nw's ramp is IAM, CO is NON-UNION, VERY BAD for CO's ramp.
Nw's agents are UNION, VERY bad for CO's NON UNION agents.
Now if they(NW) could only figure out the fleet UN-commonality problem !!
NH/BB's
Ps,
Whats the story today, with CO's "micronesia" ??????????
LiveInAHotel
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- Nov 5, 2003
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Its about damn time! After we got taken to the cleaners by our unions to save this company, they finally show a profit. I'm still not impressed with AMR Management even with this news. They need to learn how to respect employees and treat them fair. Just wait until April 15, 2006, this will be payback day to AA management from the employees. If you work for AA you know what this date is and means!!Imagolfer said:Curious to know what all of you anti managment critics are saying now? Aprey is doing a stellar job in my opinion
Now let's see if Arpey and his crack heads can do it again in Q3.
operaations
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- Jul 31, 2003
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I agree...We also need to clean house on the worthless other employees that continue to abuse the system and take advantage of this airline.AAStew said:
To say that the airline industry was "deregulated" is a lie and a farce. It is still one of the most regulated industries on the planet.
The RLA should probably be done away with altogether. It's designed to be heavily tilted towards management and severely restrictions workers rights. It's prime purpose is to prevent disruption of service, which of course, comes at the expense of unionized workers.
As far as integration of employee groups, I would oppose any government interference. The legal labor contracts in effect at the time should govern integration efforts. Integration is but just another factor (and maybe cost) to be considered by management when determining the feasibilty of an asset-acqusition, merger, buyout, etc. It's none of the government's business. In the case of TWA, TWA labor contracts required the acquiecence of the their labor groups, which they gave. Sadly, under duress no doubt, but the alternative for TWA was to not have any assets acquired and eventual corporate liquidation.
The RLA should probably be done away with altogether. It's designed to be heavily tilted towards management and severely restrictions workers rights. It's prime purpose is to prevent disruption of service, which of course, comes at the expense of unionized workers.
As far as integration of employee groups, I would oppose any government interference. The legal labor contracts in effect at the time should govern integration efforts. Integration is but just another factor (and maybe cost) to be considered by management when determining the feasibilty of an asset-acqusition, merger, buyout, etc. It's none of the government's business. In the case of TWA, TWA labor contracts required the acquiecence of the their labor groups, which they gave. Sadly, under duress no doubt, but the alternative for TWA was to not have any assets acquired and eventual corporate liquidation.
Wing, sadly as you put it. But you missed a few points:
1. Before the threat of a motion to have the bankruptcy court remove some items from the TWA labor contracts, APFA had stated that TWAers would get some seniority and not be "stapled.".
2. What was voluntarily removed from the F/A contract was the provision that guaranteed seniority issues would be settled by a arbitrator under Allegheny-Mohawk rules. There was no implication that TWAers would not get some kind of seniority at AA. So TWAers did not waive their rights to expecting some seniority at AA. Only the method to do so.
3. In return for their surrendering the contractual right to an Allegheny-Mohawk arbitration, D. Carty promised verbally and in writing to the IAM a "fair and equitable" settlement on terms comparable to equally situated AA employees.
4. AA promised a facilitator would meet with the parties and to abide by the recommendations of the facilitator.
5. While AA was meeting with APFA in secret to process the SIA, they reassured IAM that the facilitator would be used, and that IAM and APFA would meet to settle seniority issues.
6. As all these promises were broken. When you promise to act and do not do so, it becomes fraud.
We will let the courts settle this matter. It is certainly better addressed there than any other forum.
1. Before the threat of a motion to have the bankruptcy court remove some items from the TWA labor contracts, APFA had stated that TWAers would get some seniority and not be "stapled.".
2. What was voluntarily removed from the F/A contract was the provision that guaranteed seniority issues would be settled by a arbitrator under Allegheny-Mohawk rules. There was no implication that TWAers would not get some kind of seniority at AA. So TWAers did not waive their rights to expecting some seniority at AA. Only the method to do so.
3. In return for their surrendering the contractual right to an Allegheny-Mohawk arbitration, D. Carty promised verbally and in writing to the IAM a "fair and equitable" settlement on terms comparable to equally situated AA employees.
4. AA promised a facilitator would meet with the parties and to abide by the recommendations of the facilitator.
5. While AA was meeting with APFA in secret to process the SIA, they reassured IAM that the facilitator would be used, and that IAM and APFA would meet to settle seniority issues.
6. As all these promises were broken. When you promise to act and do not do so, it becomes fraud.
We will let the courts settle this matter. It is certainly better addressed there than any other forum.
MCI transplant
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- Jun 4, 2003
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Oneflyer------ You mean they're accually admitting to making money off of something that was TWA????? DAMN!!!!! Carty didn't have the contractural authority to dictate the seniority integration terms to AA unions and the TWA unions and the bevy of ALPA lawyers knew it. They also knew that any nebulous verbal "promises" by Carty were meaningless and unenforceable.
Why didn't the TWA unions demand a specific seniority integration agreement up-front before they acquiesed all rights? The answer is that it didn't make any difference in that the TWA unions had zero leverage.
Why didn't the TWA unions demand a specific seniority integration agreement up-front before they acquiesed all rights? The answer is that it didn't make any difference in that the TWA unions had zero leverage.
goingboeing
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- Jan 30, 2004
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Yeah,AA turns a profit and the 1st thing they do is hire another executive.This is just what we need to make AA successful.[More Management]
Look how much money [cash flow] it took to generate a $6 Million profit and this was with record load factors.What is going to happen when the summer vacation season is over?
I'm glad AA made a profit but I'm trying not to get overly excited as the 3Q & 4Q reality of past history looms.
Today it is high fuel prices and tomorrow it will be another crisis that affects the bottom line.
Look how much money [cash flow] it took to generate a $6 Million profit and this was with record load factors.What is going to happen when the summer vacation season is over?
I'm glad AA made a profit but I'm trying not to get overly excited as the 3Q & 4Q reality of past history looms.
Today it is high fuel prices and tomorrow it will be another crisis that affects the bottom line.
