AA Pilot''s Pension - Value Summary Scared Cow
- Thread starter RV4
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- #32
[blockquote]
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On 3/16/2003 11:42:13 AM Mach85ER wrote:
RV4
I thought you said the retirement benefit for a mechanic was $3500/ month after he is retired.
My question is, if in retirement he receives $3500/month, what was his monthly pay as an active AA mechanic right before he retired?
thx
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[/blockquote]
I have miscalculated. There is no known equation that I can find that would allow an AA Mechanic to retire with $3500 per month pension. Much less would be the average.
And without a doubt, NO LUMP SUM OPTION!
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On 3/16/2003 11:42:13 AM Mach85ER wrote:
RV4
I thought you said the retirement benefit for a mechanic was $3500/ month after he is retired.
My question is, if in retirement he receives $3500/month, what was his monthly pay as an active AA mechanic right before he retired?
thx
----------------
[/blockquote]
I have miscalculated. There is no known equation that I can find that would allow an AA Mechanic to retire with $3500 per month pension. Much less would be the average.
And without a doubt, NO LUMP SUM OPTION!
RV4,
So a mechanic retires somewhere at slightly less than 50% pay. So a Captain retires and gets an annuity somewhere around 50% of pay. So the Captain gets 50% of 210K? So what.
Big deal.
You aren't subsidizing the pilots, if anything, the APA has subsidized the TWU and the APFA. Both groups have been paid at industry standard or higher. APA pilots have made as much as 22% less than the pay at other comparable carriers for 10 out of my 13 years at AA. Go ask a pilot what overtime pay is, you get it. Go ask a pilot on 12/25 how much extra he gets that day. The answer is none, same as any day. Get a raise lately ? I haven't seen one in 2.5 years. In fact, I have taken a 36K paycut. Have you? I think its great the FA's and the TWU are paid near the industries highest. It's not your fault we aren't, it's ours.
Your problem is that the mechanics don't have their own seperate union and negotiations. The cabin cleaners are as close to you in job skills as they are to us. Do you want the lump sum option? Go negotiate it and stop crying about someone else who did.
You think APA pilots are overpaid? Leave out the 150 B777 guys getting 75 hour months. Look at the other 5000 AA Captains. Go talk to a Realtor in MIA/BOS/LAX/ORD/JFK and tell them your an AA Captain making the big bucks at around 170K a year. You'll get your ass laughed at.
Finally, spare us the 160 hour a month average. Subtract all the "could not duplicate, ops check normal" pencil whipping and calling daddy TUL for a deferral authorization and your productivity numbers will look like crap too.
So a mechanic retires somewhere at slightly less than 50% pay. So a Captain retires and gets an annuity somewhere around 50% of pay. So the Captain gets 50% of 210K? So what.
Big deal.
You aren't subsidizing the pilots, if anything, the APA has subsidized the TWU and the APFA. Both groups have been paid at industry standard or higher. APA pilots have made as much as 22% less than the pay at other comparable carriers for 10 out of my 13 years at AA. Go ask a pilot what overtime pay is, you get it. Go ask a pilot on 12/25 how much extra he gets that day. The answer is none, same as any day. Get a raise lately ? I haven't seen one in 2.5 years. In fact, I have taken a 36K paycut. Have you? I think its great the FA's and the TWU are paid near the industries highest. It's not your fault we aren't, it's ours.
Your problem is that the mechanics don't have their own seperate union and negotiations. The cabin cleaners are as close to you in job skills as they are to us. Do you want the lump sum option? Go negotiate it and stop crying about someone else who did.
You think APA pilots are overpaid? Leave out the 150 B777 guys getting 75 hour months. Look at the other 5000 AA Captains. Go talk to a Realtor in MIA/BOS/LAX/ORD/JFK and tell them your an AA Captain making the big bucks at around 170K a year. You'll get your ass laughed at.
Finally, spare us the 160 hour a month average. Subtract all the "could not duplicate, ops check normal" pencil whipping and calling daddy TUL for a deferral authorization and your productivity numbers will look like crap too.
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- #34
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On 3/16/2003 3
33 PM AAviator wrote:
RV4, are you by chance the artist formerly know as AMFA Dave?
If so, you're really undercutting your past internet life as a staunch "pro labor" pundit.
I'm missing something here, are you pro labor or pro AA?
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[/blockquote]
If it is considered anti-labor to not think highly of subsidizing exuberant pensions for a pilot via a pay and benefit cut from my own paycheck, then I am GUILTY! I suspect with a little honesty, many others would be classified anti-labor also.
I have also been called anti-labor for favoring a law that requires the union to have my permission before using my paycheck for political purposes.
I have also been called a SCAB for favoring craft union representation instead of industrial unions.
I don't see where much has changed! Just the names is all I see different.
Freedom is Grand is it not?
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On 3/16/2003 3
33 PM AAviator wrote: RV4, are you by chance the artist formerly know as AMFA Dave?
If so, you're really undercutting your past internet life as a staunch "pro labor" pundit.
I'm missing something here, are you pro labor or pro AA?
----------------
[/blockquote]
If it is considered anti-labor to not think highly of subsidizing exuberant pensions for a pilot via a pay and benefit cut from my own paycheck, then I am GUILTY! I suspect with a little honesty, many others would be classified anti-labor also.
I have also been called anti-labor for favoring a law that requires the union to have my permission before using my paycheck for political purposes.
I have also been called a SCAB for favoring craft union representation instead of industrial unions.
I don't see where much has changed! Just the names is all I see different.
Freedom is Grand is it not?
RV4,
Whatever deal is made, it will be made as part of an overall package of which the pension issue is only one part. While I may sign off on concessions, not one cent will be approved just because your feelings are hurt.
Despite your whiny crying about another employee group that is blameless in regard to your life choices, our deal will get done to keep the company going. Your innocent quest for info cannot hide your envy of another. The pilots negotiated things like the lump sum. Your lack of pay subsidizes jobs that both of us could do with 10 minutes of training. Get your own mechanics union, or go to pilot school.
The choice is yours.
Whatever deal is made, it will be made as part of an overall package of which the pension issue is only one part. While I may sign off on concessions, not one cent will be approved just because your feelings are hurt.
Despite your whiny crying about another employee group that is blameless in regard to your life choices, our deal will get done to keep the company going. Your innocent quest for info cannot hide your envy of another. The pilots negotiated things like the lump sum. Your lack of pay subsidizes jobs that both of us could do with 10 minutes of training. Get your own mechanics union, or go to pilot school.
The choice is yours.
What the hell are you talking about? For plan year 2001 the A fund is 87% (plus or minus) funded. The B fund by design is 100% funded. For 2002 the valuation will not be released until the 3rd quarter. will it be "less" funded on a percentage basis? You bet. So will yours.
What the hell are you talking about?
What the hell are you talking about?
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- #39
Last week, AMR started lining up loans and consultants that could help it through a bankruptcy. An AMR spokeswoman declined to comment on any speculation surrounding a bankruptcy filing.
According to Fitch Ratings, AMR's pension plan needs $3 billion more in assets to cover its obligations to present and future retirees – a shortfall known as underfunding. US Airways' pension is underfunded by $3 billion, and United's by $4.1 billion.
According to Fitch Ratings, AMR's pension plan needs $3 billion more in assets to cover its obligations to present and future retirees – a shortfall known as underfunding. US Airways' pension is underfunded by $3 billion, and United's by $4.1 billion.
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- #40
MUST READ!
http://www.awaforums.com/docs/Pensions.pdf
Why airline pensions are "going away". You really need to read this! Fitch Ratings has done a remarkably good job of bringing things together on this issue. This is an example of the "pitfalls" of relying on these defined benefit pensions to get you through retirement.
http://www.awaforums.com/docs/Pensions.pdf
Why airline pensions are "going away". You really need to read this! Fitch Ratings has done a remarkably good job of bringing things together on this issue. This is an example of the "pitfalls" of relying on these defined benefit pensions to get you through retirement.
KC tirechanger
Member
- Mar 3, 2003
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Rv4,Why do you think ex-TWAer's Senority is so high? It's because we can't afford to retire! Our TWA retirement was "Frozen" for 14 years! At the time,it seemed like one of the least painful things we could do to keep our Airline Flying! Well now it has come back and beaten us in the tail! Believe me, you don't what this!!!The alturnative they are offering is nothing but smoke and mirrors! You'll end up like us, being bought out by Southwest and only getting 25% your Senority! If your lucky!!!!!
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