AA orders yet another 777

[WorldTraveler]

Actaully they do have 777-300 rates in th book, its around $4/hr more than a -200

that~s what I remembered... the issue is whether the 773ER can be operated at the MTOW for the 773ER or the lower MTOW of the 772ER which is about the same as the 773 (non ER)... if the intention is to use the 773ER to primarily add more capacity to LHR and GRU, then you don't need the higher capabilities of the 773ER ... the 773 would work fine... NRT is a bit more dicey esp. from DFW....
.
the benefit of the 773ER is it is the most efficient longhaul airplane available so AA can increase its productivity substantially by using that aircraft.... when combined with the 738 vs M80 replacements, AA can make a decent sized dent in productivity compared to their present fleet.... but it comes at the price of a lot more debt... even though AA wouldn't be buying them for a dime more than the market value of the aircraft, it is more debt. AA is shifting costs from the operational side to the finance side by buying new aircraft.
.
if AA is able to get labor sign-off, the 773ER can indeed by used to substantially increase AA's ability to compete in long-haul markets.. but the reality is that the 772ER could do many of the same routes.. the increased range on the 773ER is not near as great of a benefit as the reduced operating costs...

 

[Frank Szabo]

Well...the assumption is, the Teamsters will squeeze a bit more out of UA, and set the bar higher for AA to have to come up to.
I know you knew that Frank, but hopefully it will come to fruition for you guys.

Yes, I understood the original implication but as I said earlier I see collusion between the majors to minimize any gains by the mechs.

Not sure if the IBT is similar to the TWU re: their respective company (in bed with them and allied against their mechanics). Perhaps there may be some slight gains to both them and us if not.

Otherwise, ...

 

[damajagua]

Why is every topic hijack by the TWU and mechanics?

 

[jimntx]

Because they are the most important and everything at AA revolves around how good (or bad depending on which side you are on) the TWU is. We lowly flight attendants don't deserve a thread that deals only with flight attendant issues. If it is a real issue it is a TWU issue, or will be made so very quickly. Maybe we should abandon this board and start a flight attendant forum on Yahoo. There we could limit posting ability to flight attendants.

 

[Mach85ER]

There is no pilot payrate for the B777ER.

On the day Arpey announced the first purchase, he answered a "what did you say?" phone call from APA and admitted that is no agreed payrate.

The -ER wasn't even off the drawing board when the original -300 rate was negotiated. It is a far heavier aircraft, as much as a 737 in weight difference, than the original -300 rate.

It's a paperweight until a pilot contract is signed.

 

[damajagua]

Because they are the most important and everything at AA revolves around how good (or bad depending on which side you are on) the TWU is. We lowly flight attendants don't deserve a thread that deals only with flight attendant issues. If it is a real issue it is a TWU issue, or will be made so very quickly. Maybe we should abandon this board and start a flight attendant forum on Yahoo. There we could limit posting ability to flight attendants.

Totally agree I am so sick of coming to this forum and reading the same
crap over and over. And it's all about the TWU, AMT ETC.ETC ETC.

 

[Rogallo]

It's all about ME-chanics.

 

[eolesen]

Now **that's** funny....

 

[Slopoke]

Totally agree I am so sick of coming to this forum and reading the same
crap over and over. And it's all about the TWU, AMT ETC.ETC ETC.

Can we all get along?

 

[aapitbull]

Totally agree I am so sick of coming to this forum and reading the same
crap over and over. And it's all about the TWU, AMT ETC.ETC ETC.

Yeah and I guess there is no one on here sick and tired of hearing you F/A's bit%h about the TWA merger and all the stapleing and the lawsuits that might or have been filed, go ahead and take your sanctimonious crap over to yahoo no sweat of my back!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Because they are the most important and everything at AA revolves around how good (or bad depending on which side you are on) the TWU is. We lowly flight attendants don't deserve a thread that deals only with flight attendant issues. If it is a real issue it is a TWU issue, or will be made so very quickly. Maybe we should abandon this board and start a flight attendant forum on Yahoo. There we could limit posting ability to flight attendants.

The thread following yours was about the Pilots (Mach 85) would be affected. Each group looks at how the issue affects them, thats normal. Do you expect us to talk about how it would affect the FA's? If we did then you would tell us we have no business commenting on FA issues. I recall the FAs starting a thread a while ago and everyone pretty much let you guys have at it and I dont recall anyone complaining about that.

Maybe its because more mechanics speak up. Many started this back in 1999 when a thread opened up called "The Mechanic.com". For us it was a Revolution, we were able to communicate across the industry, across the country. Many of the incumbant unions faced challenges as a result and mechanics saw big restorations to their pay. This prompted a backlash at Northwest , where the industry, the government and other unions conspired to screw over the mechanics group, we still havent recovered from that. Since then enrollment has dropped off at schools that train mechs and they are leaving the industry faster than they are coming in. If mechanics stopped working OT the system would collapse. When "The-mechanic.com" webmaster retired the thread shut down and many went here.

 

[Bob Owens]

Yes, I understood the original implication but as I said earlier I see collusion between the majors to minimize any gains by the mechs.

Not sure if the IBT is similar to the TWU re: their respective company (in bed with them and allied against their mechanics). Perhaps there may be some slight gains to both them and us if not.

Otherwise, ...

I suspect collusion between both the unions and the companies. We've been strung along for a year after turning down a TA (The APA was released immediately after they rejected their TA back in 1997) and the IBT was running around telling their guys "you dont want to end up like the mechanics at AA and be stuck in mediation for years".

Both were banking on UAL mechanics accepting the deal then using those concessionary wages as the standard.

Currently ther's a $17/hr pay difference between us and the top, closer to $20/hr once benefits are thrown in. We lag by 40%.

Unlike the pilots we get paid the same wether its a 777-300ER or a 737 and I doubt that a 777-300ER Pilot would end up earning double digits less than a WN Pilot, maybe a UPS pilot but I doubt its 40% less. Sorry I dont think UPS has FAs.

We need for the ATD to demand we be released.

 

[Frank Szabo]

... snip

We need for the ATD to demand we be released.

We'll only be released when the company is ready for the strike little jimmy will call, giving the company what it wants. We can't "help out" the company while on the street.

A CHAOS type arrangment would be a much better solution - a release doesn't always mean one should walk regardless of what the paid for International SOB says ....

 

[eolesen]

The point still stands... The mechanics already dominate the discussion more than WT does on the DL forum. Bob is right as to why there are so many here, and he forgets the interim step of the PBB forums after TM was shut down.

There are already plenty of threads where you can huddle. Not every discussion has to include a reference to the TWU.

Maybe it's time for me to volunteer to be a moderator again....

 

[JFK Fleet Service]

Unemployment is back over 9%,payroll data is softening and it appears the slow crawl out of recession has taken on a glacial pace.

The idea that the government is going to allow any labor group at AA to voluntarily become unemployed in this climate is misplaced.The 2012 campaign is right around the corner,do you think with unemployment back over 9% you're going to be allowed to go out on strike?


Surprisingly enough, the rest of the public doesn't give a crap about the plight of the poor underpaid American Airlines employees.I found that out at a wedding recently where I got up on the well used 16% paycut soap box and was promptly knocked off of it by a couple at my table who had taken 100% paycuts with both losing their financial service jobs.