AA flew a non-ETOPS A321S LAX-HNL on Aug 31; Oops!

[1AA]

And to be clear the US side has been running ETOPS operations for an extremely long time with Airbus aircraft to the Caribbean so this has nothing to do with the management team - clearly some one made a mistake - to turn this into management made this happen is a red herring

Can you tell us which city pairs USAIR was running ETOPS to the Caribbean? Never heard of a ETOPS flight to the Caribbean from the mainland.

 

[700UW]

AUA?

 

[FWAAA]

I would have guessed that CLT-AUA was never more than 60 minutes from a diversion airfield, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

US has a long history of ETOPS with its PHX-Hawai'i 757s (on the HP side) and its 757/767/A330 TATL operations (on the US East side).

 

[1AA]

AUA?

If someone can post city pairs we can easily figure out if it's a ETOPS flight. 120, 180, 240 minute rule and so on.

 

[1AA]

AA performed checks on the A300 which were called "Over water Service Checks". They were NOT ETOPS checks and the A300's at the time were not ETOPS rated. AA did not maintain them to comply with ETOPS. Later on I believe we had 10 of them flying ETOPS from jfk to lhr. These OWSC's were only done from and too the Caribbean.

 

[dfw gen]

I can't recall this ever happening before the merger. Coincidence or not, the new American is mainly run by USAIR people. It's perceived that way.

It's not perception it's reality.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I can't recall this ever happening before the merger. Coincidence or not, the new American is mainly run by USAIR people. It's perceived that way.

 
You're absolutely wrong.  It's mainly run by America West people.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I would have guessed that CLT-AUA was never more than 60 minutes from a diversion airfield, but perhaps I'm mistaken.

US has a long history of ETOPS with its PHX-Hawai'i 757s (on the HP side) and its 757/767/A330 TATL operations (on the US East side).

 
AUA flights are not ETOPS.  They are Class II navigation due to the fact that they are out of range of ground-based navigation aids and VHF communications.  But that does not make them ETOPS.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I would think that it was not a matter of the A321 in question being ETOPS-equipped but not properly signed off.   If it had been only in need of the ETOPS check, they would have simply accomplished the check in Hawaii and operated with revenue on the way back.

 

[ChrisUS]

 
You're absolutely wrong.  It's mainly run by America West people.

THANK YOU!!!   

 

[eolesen]

We don't care what you did in the past. and since you aren't a mechanic you signed off on nothing other than a lav system service.

The vast majority of people are going to believe someone like Rogallo than someone like you that wants to gleefully pretend that nothing happened.

 
Save *this* for future reference... 

I have to say that the mechanic should know. The aircraft nose gear door says ETOPS, the log book says ETOPS and even the SAFE system says ETOPS.

 
Is it an unshakable fact that the nose doors on the A321H's have ETOPS on them?
 
Do the 321S's and 321H's both have overhead rafts? If one does and the other doesn't, then that should have been noticed on the safety equipment check by the FA's.

If the mechanics checked all of the applicable systems and there weren't any MEL items that would rule out ETOPS, I find it hard to blame the guy who did the pre-departure check from maintenance.

 

[autofixer]

Aren't all A321 slide raft equipped?  No need for old school overhead rafts.

 

[FWAAA]

Aren't all A321 slide raft equipped?  No need for old school overhead rafts.

I thought the supplemental raft(s) on the 757s were due to too many passengers for the capacity of the slide rafts.   A 747 has slide rafts but perhaps 400 passengers plus crew requires extra raft space.   Or do they design the slide rafts to be large enough to float their proportionate share of the passengers?   

 

[autofixer]

I thought the supplemental raft(s) on the 757s were due to too many passengers for the capacity of the slide rafts.   A 747 has slide rafts but perhaps 400 passengers plus crew requires extra raft space.   Or do they design the slide rafts to be large enough to float their proportionate share of the passengers?   

It looks like the A321H has 4 dual lane slide rafts and 2 single lane rafts, similar to the A330. This will hold the passenger and crew load.   However, you are correct, there is a single 25 person Auxiliary Raft installed on the A321H.

 

[N924PS]

If someone can post city pairs we can easily figure out if it's a ETOPS flight. 120, 180, 240 minute rule and so on.

USairways did not operate under ETOPS rules to the Caribbean in the Airbus 319-320-321.

Rather it was known as EOW, Extended Over Water, which provided for the necessary navigation, emergency equipment and HF Radios to operate In the Western Atlantic Route System (WATRS) greater than 162 NM from shore. Or 100 NM above 35 degrees Latitude due to water temperature issues.

No special maintenance sign offs were required. The logbooks were placarded either EOW or NON-EOW. Nothing was painted on the gear doors to differentiate.

All former America West Airbus's were NON EOW, no life jackets, restricted to 50 NM from shore.

All USairways A320's are EOW. Some A319's are EOW. The rest are NON-EOW as are all of the USAirways A321's. These aircraft have life jackets and slide rafts that allow operation out to 162 NM from shore.

USAirways ETOPS capable B757 and A330 aircraft are utilized on these routes but are not flown under ETOPS rules to the best of my recollection.

Hope this helps.