AA flew a non-ETOPS A321S LAX-HNL on Aug 31; Oops!

[700UW]

It cant fly ETOPS if its downgraded, plane has to be fixed and a domestic verification flight must be done, before it can be returned to ETOPS status, if can fly non-etops routes in the mean time.
 
In the past they use to have to have a test flight for it, now they can count the flying over the land before they hit the ocean and it counts as the domestic verification flight.

 

[MetalMover]

 
Maybe I should have used ETOPS status. Like LMP status.
 
It's obvious the aircraft is ETOPS certified and capable. But what happens to the ETOPS status when the aircraft fails to meet ETOPS requirements? 

I see what you're getting at now. I think if an aircraft has an etops critical system is inop or faulty, it just could not fly etops until corrected. But I have never seen an aircraft lost its etops certification permanently.
 
You could have a system on mel that would prevent it from flying etops but only until that system is fixed.

 

[Rogallo]

I see what you're getting at now. I think if an aircraft has an etops critical system is inop or faulty, it just could not fly etops until corrected. But I have never seen an aircraft lost its etops certification permanently.
 
You could have a system on mel that would prevent it from flying etops but only until that system is fixed.

 
Yeah, bad use of words on my part, sorry!

 

[Kev3188]

Would the nose gear door specify ETOPS lime ual and swa have on theirs?

This was my first thought as well.

Also, what is the difference (for lack of a better term), between a "regular" A321, and one that's certified for ETOPS?

 

[MetalMover]

This was my first thought as well.

Also, what is the difference (for lack of a better term), between a "regular" A321, and one that's certified for ETOPS?

First of all the A321t are transcon...The A321S are standards.......two class......the A321H are ETOPS for Hawaii.  

 

[Kev3188]

Ok, fair enough. I'm not sure I was clear in what I was asking...

What I'm curious about is the differences (structural/performance/whatever) between, say, an A321s, and say an A321H.

 

[FWAAA]

Quick question: Airbus offers an optional extra fuel tanks on the A321; do the A321H models have those extra fuel tanks? The extra tanks offer 800 extra gallons of fuel each, replacing a couple of cargo container positions. With both extra tanks, that's an extra 1,600 gallons.

 

[WorldTraveler]

... and are the 321Hs ETOPS and did they come that way from the factory... and if so, and even if AA was getting its own ETOPS certificate for that fleet/operator combination, how could only one aircraft in a subfleet not be ETOPS?

or was the aircraft that was dispatched not even a 321H?

 

[MetalMover]

Ok, fair enough. I'm not sure I was clear in what I was asking...

What I'm curious about is the differences (structural/performance/whatever) between, say, an A321s, and say an A321H.

Same a/c except for two class service. A321 H just means it is capable for etops service to hawaii

 

[1AA]

Flying AA to Hawaii?

http://airtravel.about.com/od/traveltools/fl/American-Airlines-Upgrades-Aircraft-on-Hawaii-Flights.htm

 

[Kev3188]

Same a/c except for two class service. A321 H just means it is capable for etops service to hawaii

Ok cool, and thank you.

No structural or performance differences at all (besides the differing cabin layout/capacity)?

 

[1AA]

https://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/advisory_circulars/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentID/73587


AC 120-42B - Extended Operations (ETOPS and Polar Operations)

Mostly has to do with equipment installed to meet ETOPS requirements. Additional redundancy in hydraulics, electrical, navigation, communication, cargo fire suppression, etc..

 

[FWAAA]

Ok cool, and thank you.

No structural or performance differences at all (besides the differing cabin layout/capacity)?

The cabins are identical between the A321S (two-class domestic 757 replacement) and the A321H (two-class domestic Hawai'i 757 replacement). 16F and lots and lots of economy.

The 3-class transcons are labeled A321Ts.

 

[WorldTraveler]

ok... one more time.

Was the aircraft that was sent on this flight not even a 321H and did 321Hs come from the factory with ETOPS?

Was this an issue of using the wrong fleet subtype or an aircraft within the right subfleet that for whatever reason did not have current ETOPS?

 

[AirLUVer]

This will end up coming back to almost everyone that worked the flight. The Pilots, dispatchers, routers, mechanics, and FAs all have information in front of them that tell them that the aircraft was not ETOPS equipped.

I have seen flights swapped and delayed due to subfleet routing errors before on the 757, this is the first I have seen where the airplane actually departed.