AA baffled

[tfc767]

If you're gonna make a poorly fashioned argument that's short on logic, might as well take it to the extreme.

I agree 100%... and it is exactly what you management lackeys have been doing this whole thread. Spouting off stats and data out of the blue, without realizing that the whole issue is centered around the fact that AMR refuses to honor the contract they signed with APA. And there exists a darn good reason for that stipulation in our contract, which is forever lost on you koolaid drinkers - because your hatred for unions is such that the reasoning doesn't matter... just automatically denounce anything they do, all the while chalking it up to those "trouble-causing pilot prima donnas."

While you guys are at it, you should go celebrate the annual PUP payouts with your heroes. In the mean time, we'll continue fighting for a fair contract. Educating the public masses who have no clue is just part of our job.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

No prob, "son." You're so busy trying to refute me with all of your stats and data regarding this type of threat that you fail to realize the real issue - that of the company deliberately circumventing our contract during section 6 negotiations.

Doesn't this pretty much settle it for any logical, rational-thinking person? Our dear pilot here has just said that the real issue is not the facts eolesen has presented, but rather his own union propapganda.

Case closed.

 

[Observer]

a very long time ago there was a posting on the APA bulletin board during one of their negotiations, "What ever is good for AA is good for the APA and whatever is good for the APA iis good for AA". No more needs to be said, it is the same philosphy (?) today. If the Company is violating the APA's agreement, and it is doing so in the way some of you say it is, well why hasn't the APA gone to the Department of Labor or filed suit in Federal Court?

 

[eolesen]

Spain is an interesting case in distribution (something you pilots and mechanics probably don't follow, but I do).

Travel agencies account for 80%+ of the bookings, and they're booking directly on Iberia's res system. Likewise in China and HKG. They participate in Amadeus, Sabre, Worldspan, etc., but they also physically maintain their own CRS's (something the US carriers no longer do).

If you're not Iberia, you won't get the booking from most Spanish travel agencies. AA relies largely on US point of sale bookings. IB relies on the Spain point of sale. Simply put, there's more demand for flying to BOS, JFK, ORD from Spain than there is to fly to MAD or BCN from the US. With the Euro still managing to fly high, it's no surprise that there's more EU point of sale than US.

It's a little easier to sell US carriers in HKG, but with CX being the big dog in town, AA really would only be an option from the US point of sale.

The rest of the European carriers are GDS hosted, so there's a lot more transparency and availability to book regardless of the system the agency is using.

China's slowly coming along, but even there you run into a protectionist nature with the government backing the Travelsky GDS many mainland Chinese carriers are moving to. If CX and SQ move to Amadeus as is rumored, then I think you'll see a better distribution situation as far as the US carriers are concerned. At least their flights will show up on an availability display. Right now, all they see are CX or IB (depending on what country we're talking about).

Language plays a big role, too.... I fly Iberia begrudgingly. Their service is mediocre, and the FA's pretend to speak English but not very well. I'm sure the Chinese would feel likewise when flying on AA...

 

[CubsFanJohn]

AA has a MIA-MAD flights and there prorably better off letting IB handle BOS/ORD-MAD since those are low-yielding since as a Chicago resident I don't really see many Business ties to Spain now London or Paris that's another story, now JFK-MAD I think once the new 757's come on with the AFS Business Class I think we may see it. Regarding the AA/QF thing, I will defend AA on this one since LAX/SFO-SYD is a market that eats up a lot of planes and you have UA already, AA use to have this route authority until they traded it for SJU, BDA and the Carriben in the 70's and QF/UA are already entrenched in the market. Now with AA/CX I think AA should do some HKG flying, at the very least AA should be doing ORD-HKG even though it would take 3 777's I think. Pull them up from the 2013 Delivery Date to do it, DFW-HKG that would need a LR with it coming in at 7,058nm unless you wanted to have NO room for error. End of this rant...... This is just a guess from an industry outsider.

AA/IB code share: ORD-MAD? IB. JFK-MAD? IB. BOS-MAD? IB. MIA-MAD? IB.

AA/Qantas: LAX-SYD? SFO-SYD?

AA/Cathay? Don't even get me started. These are just some examples of flying that AA could perfectly well do, but chooses to let the code share do the work.

Keep buying into the management line that "those routes just aren't profitable." Gee, I wonder how DL can launch all those new int'l routes and STILL lose money, huh?

Code share = outsourcing, plain and simple.

 

[tfc767]

Look guys and gals, we obviously have differing opinions. Makes for interesting conversation but I am not the type to force my opinions on someone else. If I gave that impression my apologies. Obviously a very sensitive issue for both parties. Let's hope this thing gets settled in a way that benefits everyone.

 

[FWAAA]

I see only one poster here who sees this as a "sensitive issue" and it's the person merely parroting the APA's talking points and press releases - the ones that lack logic.

Fact is, it's not a decided question that the antitrust exemption constitutes "flying performed by or on behalf" of AA in the first place, and if it does not, then game over for the APA, since the remainder of its poorly written and poorly negotiated scope clause is irrelevant. Circular arguments to the contrary, AA probably doesn't need to discuss this with the APA.

 

[eolesen]

DFW-HKG would probably require the same exception that DFW-PEK did, which APA and AA already ruled out. ORD-HKG is far more likely, but with business travel starting to tank as the global economy starts to chill, I wouldn't count on any Asia adds anytime soon.

 

[tfc767]

I see only one poster here who sees this as a "sensitive issue" and it's the person merely parroting the APA's talking points and press releases - the ones that lack logic.

Fact is, it's not a decided question that the antitrust exemption constitutes "flying performed by or on behalf" of AA in the first place, and if it does not, then game over for the APA, since the remainder of its poorly written and poorly negotiated scope clause is irrelevant. Circular arguments to the contrary, AA probably doesn't need to discuss this with the APA.

Sure, it's a sensitive issue for only me. That's why you've been so eagerly defending your stance, huh? Puh-leeze. This subject riles you management cronies up just as much.

"Lacking logic" is an opinion of yours. We can just as well claim that the company's proposal is also lacking in logic by threatening our jobs. I'm taking the high road here by acknowledging the fact that we have different opinions, without letting emotions cloud our judgment. Let's see if you can too.

 

[eolesen]

Management cronies??

Here's a news flash for ya. The people who have been rebutting your opinions are customers, not management....

AA/BA/IB is pro customer. That's my only reason for supporting it. Oneworld is a great network to fly on, but those of us who live in the US and participate via AAdvantage get shorted on the benefits that the other programs get.

I'm already EP on AA, which means 100k points or miles from paid flying (miles from Citi, hotels, Avid, etc don't count towards tier status).

If I switch over to IB or QF as my program, I'll earn miles on AA and all BA flights. But the awards require more miles.. By sticking with AA, I don't earn squat when I fly BA from the US.

If I switch my flying to UA, I get the same awards as AA, and there are no silly exceptions for where I get mileage.

You may not care about parity,but it is a big driver for the guys spending 50k and up per year on airfare. Those are the flyers AA can't live without.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

You said it, eolesen. Before middle of this decade, we couldn't even get miles from non-US North American cities (like YVR and YYZ). The AAdvantage program is a big driver of the dollars I spend with AA (I'm also EXP) so the more integrated and customer-friendly it is, the more of my business AA gets.