AA and the PBGC

[EXT PWR]

No, what they are confusing is that the former TW f/as (possibly others as well) who were eligible for their PBGC-administered pension from TWA were able to start drawing that pension while on furlough from AA, and continue to draw it even if they have been recalled. Two different companies. Two different pension plans. And, the paying company (TWA) no longer exists.

If you are an AA employee, you may not draw a pension from AA unless you retire from AA.

Yes, you can draw Social Security and continue to work, but SS is not company-specific as far as the payment of benefits like a DB pension plan is. I am already drawing Social Security and working full-time. In fact, my SS payment has already increased a little for the additional contributions made after I started drawing.

I know about 12 Mechanics at UAL that are over age 65 and are triple dipping. If you are between age 55 and 65 and want to collect your PBGC pension you have to retire from UAL . But if you hang on past age 65 you can get S.S. , Pension , and company pay check. I'm sure it will also be true for AA if they get rid of there Pensions as for I"m pretty sure these rules fall under GOV. PBGC rules .

 

[JABORD]

First off, I don't see the benefit of giving AA your entire working years if you end up just spending all of that fortune on geritol and fiber to keep regular!
Second, the SS will be there regardless.
I recently ran the pension estimator on jetnet with the updated PBGC formula and was surprised to see the reduction from the full amount at age 60 to leaving early at age 55 was not as steep as I thought it would be. I previously worked at a pension fund and due to the numerous examples we saw regarding uncertainty of future health, the lesson learned was "take the money and run "! I for one am re-evaluating my situation and am looking at a path of : Leave at 55(take the money and run) ,find employment with a company that values their employees, collect SS and retire from my final career of 10-15 years. Life is what you make of it!

 

[Wretched Wrench]

American Airlines Pension Plans

At the end of the article:


"the bankruptcy filing’s revelation that the airline bought a $30 million London home for Tom Horton, who recently became the company’s chief executive."


Sounds like Carty all over again.

 

[FWAAA]

At the end of the article:

"the bankruptcy filing’s revelation that the airline bought a $30 million London home for Tom Horton, who recently became the company’s chief executive."

Sounds like Carty all over again.

The last paragraph was attributed to a TWU spokesman:

This is not a case of runaway labor costs. This is a case of poor management,” Jamie Horwitz, spokesman for the Transit Workers Union, said. He pointed to infighting among top executives and the bankruptcy filing’s revelation that the airline bought a $30 million London home for Tom Horton, who recently became the company’s chief executive.

And the reporter at the Washington Post took the ignorant TWU stooge at his word. Then someone pointed out some facts, noted at the top of the article:

Correction:
This article says that American Airlines had bought a $30 million house in London for use by Thomas W. Horton, now the airline’s chief executive. American Airlines said that the property cost less than that when it was purchased in 1992, before Horton’s arrival.

Those inconvenient facts.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

The last paragraph was attributed to a TWU spokesman:


And the reporter at the Washington Post took the ignorant TWU stooge at his word. Then someone pointed out some facts, noted at the top of the article:

So, I guess AA isn't living quite as high on the hog, then.


Still pretty high, though, for all the help they say they need.

 

[frontline]

I don't understand why the PBGC is being so unfair to us when it just let Northwest, Delta, United and US Airways dump their pensions and walk away. Why all of the sudden is this agency on the attack against us when we spent almost ten years trying to avoid this fate? We sacrificed so much to avoid this road and now we get nothing but crap for it.

 

[JABORD]

I don't understand why the PBGC is being so unfair to us when it just let Northwest, Delta, United and US Airways dump their pensions and walk away. Why all of the sudden is this agency on the attack against us when we spent almost ten years trying to avoid this fate? We sacrificed so much to avoid this road and now we get nothing but crap for it.

Hey Sport, you're a little confused. First off, your disappointment should be directed at AA. They made you the promise to provide you a pension recognizing your years of service and now choose to renige on that promise along with the judges help. The PBGC is only trying to cover their ass on the monies that AA has underfunded.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I don't understand why the PBGC is being so unfair to us when it just let Northwest, Delta, United and US Airways dump their pensions and walk away. Why all of the sudden is this agency on the attack against us when we spent almost ten years trying to avoid this fate? We sacrificed so much to avoid this road and now we get nothing but crap for it.

Because with the exception of the PMDL pilots, all DL and NW employees still have frozen but not terminated pension benefits. The PBGC assumes no responsibility for frozen pensions, which is why they pointed that option out to AA.

 

[Kev3188]

She wants to work to at least 80-85

Good Lord! What on earth for? To each their own, I guess...

 

[usa1]

Bump

No, what they are confusing is that the former TW f/as (possibly others as well) who were eligible for their PBGC-administered pension from TWA were able to start drawing that pension while on furlough from AA, and continue to draw it even if they have been recalled. Two different companies. Two different pension plans. And, the paying company (TWA) no longer exists.

If and when US Airways becomes American Airlines, US agents due PBGC benefits should be able to follow the path of former TWA employees. Payments will kick in at age 55.

 

[WorldTraveler]

you wanna bet your paycheck (or retirement check) on that?

BTW, what happened to BoeingBoy since he is now showing inactive?

 

[johnny kat]

There are many f/as at US that are doing just that at normal retirement age. So, I think it fair to assume that there will be f/as over age 55 that will be doing the same thing if a COC occurs. You can reference the ourafa.org webcast after the first TA was voted down. The AFA attorney discussed the COC issue.

I think BoeingBoy has flown west. RIP.

 

[usa1]

There are many f/as at US that are doing just that at normal retirement age. So, I think it fair to assume that there will be f/as over age 55 that will be doing the same thing if a COC occurs. You can reference the ourafa.org webcast after the first TA was voted down. The AFA attorney discussed the COC issue.

I think BoeingBoy has flown west. RIP.

Thanks JK. Taken from your link.

a.I am an east f/a. when can I start drawing my pbgc and still work as a f/a? is it age 62 ? i am 56 as of today. Will this still be available once the merger goes through?

b. I read in a Q & A that if we become AA, we will be able to take our PBGC AND continue to fly…is this true? Can you speak about the conditions/restrictions in regard to this issue?

The issue comes down to the name and nature of the surviving entity. The question is whether you still working for the plan sponsor. If the answer is yes, you cannot continue to work and draw the PBGC pension. We do not know how the transaction will be structured at this point so cannot give a definitive answer. The Pension Benefit Guarantee Corporation will review the corporate transaction and the name of the survivor and make the determination.

The PBGC "flight attendant"and "PBGC (other employees)" agreements read the same on this. So I guess it will come down to a "name change", unless someone at the PBGC try's to renege on what was agreed to. CWA/AFA lawyers might have to figure out what the " nature of the surviving entity" is?

 

[usa1]

When America West brought USAir out of BK, and choose to use the name US Airways, we were told NO because there was no name change. So how could the same thing happen between AA and US .... and the name be American and the answer be the same? How could TWA employees be told yes, and us no this time? This will be interesting for many US employees?

 

[WorldTraveler]

so very sorry to hear about Jim and thanks for the update Kat. I was afraid that might have been the case. As much as we might scrap on all kinds of issues, we are something of a family on here and everyone's presence is important.
I had wondered about Jim before - think I asked the question before w/o a response; his presence here will be missed.

Once a plan is terminated and turned over to the PBGC, I don't think any successor company can be held responsible for it and the benefits that would be paid out are in line w/ the PBGC's schedule, not the schedule or plan of any of the companies that might hire those employees, past, present, or future.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong.