PBGC News

[fatherabraham]

That's OK boo boo. I've got zero issues with the APA.

Its you guys that are the problem.

Boo Boo,

Your Zero issues will surely increase if ya get up the nerve to ( attempt ) jump rank with them. You can mark my words and earmark this page, for it shall be an obvious awakening to westies like you. Seriously now, you can't be that naive?

FA

 

[Move2CLT]

If they live up to the deals they make then we'll be ok.

You guys don't like to honor your agreements and like to project the blame for your failures onto others.

The APA and AoL have been in communication with each other regarding the Nic award and a merger with the APA.

We'll be better off then we ever were with APA and you guys will experience first hand what a cram down really feels like.

 

[fatherabraham]

If they live up to the deals they make then we'll be ok.



The APA and AoL have been in communication with each other regarding the Nic award and a merger with the APA.

Well then Boo Boo, share with us all your insight . Did APA specifically comment on Nic and SLI potentially using a Nic list?
Be honest now, no dodging the Question. If know zip, then be forthcoming .

FA

 

[Move2CLT]

That's all I have.

The APA knows what's coming and I understand the discussion between lawyers on both sides was productive.

DOH I'm not worried about.

You can expect an integration using Nic and then a Nic like SLI with fences with the APA.

 

[fatherabraham]

That's all I have.

The APA knows what's coming and I understand the discussion between lawyers on both sides was productive.

DOH I'm not worried about.

You can expect an integration using Nic and then a Nic like SLI with fences with the APA.

So ya reckon fences ok by you with APA ?
I do believe the westies despised the notion with AAA.
Different times or what? After all , gee wiz........they can't be anything but perky with AOL......minority and all!

FA

 

[Move2CLT]

No.

You guys didn't want fences as it would prevent your more junior FOs from upgrading.

So fences are fine by me with the APA.

Too late for USAPA.

 

[73320]

Boo Boo,

Your Zero issues will surely increase if ya get up the nerve to ( attempt ) jump rank with them. You can mark my words and earmark this page, for it shall be an obvious awakening to westies like you. Seriously now, you can't be that naive?

FA

Please explain the "attempt to jump rank" comment. Is it your belief that the west crafted the SLI known as the NIC? Did the west Capt. who was able to maintain his/her seat and relative bid position in the NIC somehow "jump rank"? If so please explain. It seems to many outside these parts that putting long term furloughed pilots and FO's ahead of continuously employed Capts is an "attempt to jump rank". I am confused about this as it seems you are projecting USAPAs rank jumping scheme on the west pilots who by all accounts did not craft the arbitration. Thanks for explaining and hopefully resolving any confusion on this matter.

 

[fatherabraham]

Please explain the "attempt to jump rank" comment. Is it your belief that the west crafted the SLI known as the NIC? Did the west Capt. who was able to maintain his/her seat and relative bid position in the NIC somehow "jump rank"? If so please explain. It seems to many outside these parts that putting long term furloughed pilots and FO's ahead of continuously employed Capts is an "attempt to jump rank". I am confused about this as it seems you are projecting USAPAs rank jumping scheme on the west pilots who by all accounts did not craft the arbitration. Thanks for explaining and hopefully resolving any confusion on this matter.

73320,

1) If your a westie, you know the deal and not inclined to beat that dead horse.

2) if not a former AWA pilot, there are 4000 + pages under the pilot thread that can brief you way better than I

3) I was replying to move2clt and he fully understands my jump rank comment as he's too embarrassed to even state his actual AWA year of DOH and the huge # of years he will jump past his brethren at AAA who can't hold narrowbody c/o after 25 uninterrupted years of service in clt

Not to be dismissive, just too weary to belabour the issues. Needless to say, both sides are totally entrenched in their position and vast majority of Easties would argue your premise.

FA

 

[Beancounter]

Please explain the "attempt to jump rank" comment. Is it your belief that the west crafted the SLI known as the NIC? Did the west Capt. who was able to maintain his/her seat and relative bid position in the NIC somehow "jump rank"? If so please explain. It seems to many outside these parts that putting long term furloughed pilots and FO's ahead of continuously employed Capts is an "attempt to jump rank". I am confused about this as it seems you are projecting USAPAs rank jumping scheme on the west pilots who by all accounts did not craft the arbitration. Thanks for explaining and hopefully resolving any confusion on this matter.

The east doesn't believe in relative seniority for an integration. The majority want DOH, which might work in a different scenario (merger), but in ours results in the majority of west pilots being placed below the majority of east pilots. 20 years at AWA, you were a senior captain, 20 years at US, you were a reserve FO.

The arbitrated seniority list known as the NIC favored the most senior east pilots and the most junior AWA pilots, such as myself.

Some understand the damage DOH would due to west pilots and are just angry because they feel that the attrition (future retirements) weren't adequately addressed in the arbitrated seniority list.

Bean

 

[BoeingBoy]

So ya reckon fences ok by you with APA ?
I do believe the westies despised the notion with AAA. /quote]
A Nic-like SLI with fences or a DOH SLI with look pretty do little fences....see a difference yet?

Jim

 

[AAviator]

Well then Boo Boo, share with us all your insight . Did APA specifically comment on Nic and SLI potentially using a Nic list?
Be honest now, no dodging the Question. If know zip, then be forthcoming .

FA

Dave Bates has an obligation to look at every option APA has for its members going forward. I can tell you every correspondence I've seen references B6 and AS. When LCC comes up, a lots of eyes roll, even my reps. They're well aware of the train wreck LCC is, and is well versed on what LCC DOESN'T do for us

We know LCC is going to make an offer. LCC has to. Absent a merger with AA, Dougies future dims rapidly. Dave Bates should have a look at what will be on the table from all parties. There will be at least four in total.

Meanwhile, the latest about jetBlue:

Ten years ago this week, JetBlue Airways (JBLU) staged a festive initial public offering at the Nasdaq marketplace in New Yorks Times Square. Although September 11 had plunged the airline industry into record losses, the then-two-year-old carrier was the envy of its peers. Out of the gate, it was funded by venture backers and strategically hubbed at New Yorks John F. Kennedy International Airport. It boasted brand-new, leather-seat-equipped Airbus A320s and fanatically loyal customers drawn to its free in-flight TV and help-yourself snacks. Its low costs and tight-knit company culturefounder and Chief Executive Officer David Neeleman could often be seen helping flight crews vacuum planes between runsseemed set to reinvent the industry. JetBlue stock soon tripled as larger rivals Delta Air Lines (DAL) and United Airlines rushed (unsuccessfully) to launch their own cheery, low-cost spinoffs.

With founder Neeleman long gone and shares 80 percent off their high, JetBlue now finds itself bereft of much luster. A JetBlue pilots midair meltdown on March 27 was the latest in a string of very public mishaps, starting with passengers getting stranded on a plane for up to 11 hours during a February 2007 ice storm and a flight attendant bolting the planes exit chute after cursing passengers in August 2010. JetBlue now ranks last among 15 airlines in on-time performance and ninth in customer complaints to the Department of Transportationthree times Southwest Airlines (LUV) complaint ratio. The tables have turned. A vastly consolidated airline industry once again favors major carriers with expansive route maps and a preponderance of business travelersthings JetBlue lacks.

JetBlue isnt immune to the industrys bane: soaring fuel costs. Ten years ago jet fuel cost an average of 71 a gallon; JetBlue now pays an average of $3.15. Higher fuel costs represented 71 percent of its yearly increase in operating expenses. Spokeswoman Allison Steinberg says part of the jump was due to more people flying on JetBlue at a time when its fuel costs surged 30 percent in a year.

That practice of adding flights and routesthus incurring more operating and capital expenseswhile the rest of the industry is shrinking to cope with fuel costs is what bothers Dahlman Rose analyst Helane Becker. JetBlue increased its capacity by 7 percent last year, as it continued to add routes attractive to higher-fare corporate fliers. Were concerned about their expansion into the business traveler, Becker says. JetBlue started as the airline for the New York leisure traveler. They dont have the route structure or the miles to compete with the majors for business dollars. JetBlues Steinberg says the airline is making headway among business fliers, especially in Boston, its fastest-growing market.

Thats a switch from JetBlues initial focus on leisure travelers and service to less-crowded airports from its hub at JFK. But during much of the recession, whenever a major carrier retrenched somewhere, JetBlue would quickly target expansion opportunities. It now plans to have 45 nonstop routes out of Boston by next month, and its expanding service out of San Juan. As American Airlines began dismantling its San Juan hub in 2008, JetBlue has added 11 new nonstop flights from Puerto Rico to Florida, the Northeast, and other Caribbean islands. Some analysts say that expanding this way in spite of soaring fuel costs is a risk.

JetBlue remains profitable, having posted net income of $86 million last year, ending 2011 with about $1.2 billion in cash and short-term investments. George Ferguson, senior airline analyst at Bloomberg Industries, also notes the carrier has managed to retain the industrys lowest costs. But JetBlue cant quell investors worries that it seems destined, despite its new routes, to remain a small player in a business where size matters. Indeed, its bottom line represents a sliver of the $800 million-plus that far larger Delta and United Continental Holdings (UAL) each netted last year.

Profits arent the only disparity. A decade of mergers, alliances, and bankruptcies has let the majors get bigger, offer more choices to frequent fliers, cut wages, and take out thousands of seats and redundant gates and routes. US Airways (LCC) and America West have merged, as have United and Continental and Delta and Northwest. Even go-it-alone Southwest, Neelemans alma mater and the model for JetBlue, nabbed routes from liquidated carrier ATA and acquired AirTran Airways.

JetBlues route network, meanwhile, has no big code-share alliances, nor does it have the kinds of revenue-sharing opportunities other carriers have forged. Lufthansa (LHA) did buy 19 percent of the airline in December 2007. But the German carrier in March announced its intention to raise money by selling convertible bonds linked to its JetBlue stake, which could trim the holding by 2017.

With the industry so thoroughly merged and allied, the question is whether JetBlue can remain independent now that rivals have bulked up. Because of congestion in the New York area, JFK is limited in how many takeoffs and landings are permitted each hour. JetBlues slot dominance thereits the largest domestic carrier, with 150 daily flightswould be a key asset for a potential acquirer. JetBlues Steinberg responds that CEO Dave Barger recently reiterated at an industry conference that the carrier intends to grow organically and independently. Still, Roger King, an airline analyst with research firm CreditSights, says JetBlue could be particularly appealing to American or Delta, carriers that boast plenty of international flights into JFK but not the complementary domestic traffic United Continental enjoys at its Newark trans-Atlantic hub.

If now-bankrupt American reorganizes successfully and Delta senses a competitive threat in New York, both carriers might try to woo JetBlue, says William Swelbar, an aviation researcher at Massachusetts Institute of Technology and Hawaiian Airlines (HA) director. On some routes, American already has frequent-flier reciprocity with JetBlue and is likely to expand its code-sharing after its bankruptcy. An acquired JetBlue, he says, could benefit as a unique brand within a larger airline. What makes JetBlue kind of hard to integrate is that its got its culture, its got its cult following. And to desert that does damage to the very franchise that youre looking to buy. Indeed, JetBlue is the only four-star-rated domestic carrier on Skytraxs airline rankings. Ferguson, however, says thats only worth so much these days: At the end of the day, its a bus ride in the air.

The bottom line: JetBlue, which went public 10 years ago, has stayed small while rival airlines grew via consolidation. That could hurt it more than help.





Hmmmmmm... Does B6 help AA more than LCC? Looks like a merger with AA could help them out!

 

[AAviator]

OMG!

I forgot about the domain names that have been bought!!!

 

[FWAAA]

I forgot about the domain names that have been bought!!!

Not unlike buying an engagement ring before the first date.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Basic Logic, We are hired at some date ie DOH, at each individual airline absent any merger, that is your seniority number, applications are filled out at respective carriers when those basic qualifications are met you apply denied or hired, at 16 you "RELATIVELY" don't have the qualifications , MEET ALPA MERGER POLICY, time stands still, economic conditions don't apply, and income to ALPA NATIONAL is premium, BYE, BYE ALPA, DELTA is awake AIRTRAN is also! LEE MOAK KMA!

 

[flyingskier]

That's all I have.

The APA knows what's coming and I understand the discussion between lawyers on both sides was productive.

DOH I'm not worried about.

You can expect an integration using Nic and then a Nic like SLI with fences with the APA.

There will be fences alright, all west pilots will be fenced to PHX, shortly after the merger PHX will be abandoned and all west pilots will hit the street. No flame bait here, the APA will do whatever they can to protect all of their members, including the furloughed. A Nic type slotted agreement with the APA is a west pipe dream.

Skier