A President all alone.
- Thread starter Garfield1966
- Start date
KCFlyer
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 11,289
- 1,427
No....seems you are admitting that Bush has a bit of "blind loyalty". During and just after the election, when the public was expressing lack of confidence in his handling of the war, most of y'all on the right lauded him....saying that he was "sticking to his principles and not caving in to polls".
jerseyfinn
Senior
. . . I guess where you and I differ is that you seem to believe there is a solution to Iraq, I do not believe there is. At least not one that we can or should be a part of . . .
I'm not trying to be sanguine here, but there exists a solution, or at least a partial remedy to almost any problem. It comes down to courage, resolve, and the conviction to act, even when the solution is flawed, distasteful, and imperfect ( sounds like some marriages, doesn't it? :huh: ).
I'm not saying that at this time a solution exists in Iraq in a total sense-- it doesn't. But despite how bad things look, America is much better off making this present troop surge effort to try to reshape the political landscape than it is running away and leaving Iraq to fall into anarchy ( which it may very well do anyhow ). An Iraq in a perpetual state of anarchy with al Qaeda running around to boot is not in the national interest of America or those European states who sat on the sidelines. This is the path towards a regional war ( or worse ). And if this happens, all of the name-calling and Bush-bashing are meaningless.
I have no doubt that majority of Americans are completely disgusted with events in Iraq, I'm one of them. But the media and the dems have hammered away for 4 years now with static arguments which shed no light upon the dynamic events which unfold daily & morph into different forms over time ( and many of these events are not good ). But we don't talk about these things, or the positive accomplishments of our troops of which there are many. Instead disgruntled dems and their media apologists have tried to convince lots of folks that their view is path of wisdom simply by emphasizing every bomb that goes off, every setback encountered, and every soldier injured or killed. It makes a compelling image, but it does not speak to the real events on the ground and it is not a reason to withdraw at this moment.
Personally speaking, B43 has mangled this thing badly. But he is the COC and has put forth a plan and a field commander to implement it. They and our troops deserve time to see if change & a modicum of stability can be imparted for the Iraqi government to assume a larger role. Make no mistake, there'll be no "solution", but change remains possible.
Dems don't want to admit it, but citizenship sometimes means either contributing something positive or shutting up and respecting those who are grapplilng with an ugly situation. But I say this not because I'm a Bush-backer. I say it because this is serious stuff in Iraq that is about more than bombs going off and Bush flubbing the job. I really wish the dems would understand this and put forward policy proposals which deal with the reality on the ground and not idealistic visions which don't serve America's national interests any better than what Rummy et. al. have produced to this point.
There comes a time when a leader has to say we tried, it did not work and it’s time to go home.
I think that Mr. Chamberlain tried something like that and we all know the results -- chickens inevitibly come home to roost when you don't deal with problems seriously and with eyes wide open.
Mr. Bush has a finite term and our system will determine who the next inhabitant of the White House will be in another year. Until then, he is the boss and we stand behind him and our troops.
Barry
I'm not trying to be sanguine here, but there exists a solution, or at least a partial remedy to almost any problem. It comes down to courage, resolve, and the conviction to act, even when the solution is flawed, distasteful, and imperfect ( sounds like some marriages, doesn't it? :huh: ).
I'm not saying that at this time a solution exists in Iraq in a total sense-- it doesn't. But despite how bad things look, America is much better off making this present troop surge effort to try to reshape the political landscape than it is running away and leaving Iraq to fall into anarchy ( which it may very well do anyhow ). An Iraq in a perpetual state of anarchy with al Qaeda running around to boot is not in the national interest of America or those European states who sat on the sidelines. This is the path towards a regional war ( or worse ). And if this happens, all of the name-calling and Bush-bashing are meaningless.
I have no doubt that majority of Americans are completely disgusted with events in Iraq, I'm one of them. But the media and the dems have hammered away for 4 years now with static arguments which shed no light upon the dynamic events which unfold daily & morph into different forms over time ( and many of these events are not good ). But we don't talk about these things, or the positive accomplishments of our troops of which there are many. Instead disgruntled dems and their media apologists have tried to convince lots of folks that their view is path of wisdom simply by emphasizing every bomb that goes off, every setback encountered, and every soldier injured or killed. It makes a compelling image, but it does not speak to the real events on the ground and it is not a reason to withdraw at this moment.
Personally speaking, B43 has mangled this thing badly. But he is the COC and has put forth a plan and a field commander to implement it. They and our troops deserve time to see if change & a modicum of stability can be imparted for the Iraqi government to assume a larger role. Make no mistake, there'll be no "solution", but change remains possible.
Dems don't want to admit it, but citizenship sometimes means either contributing something positive or shutting up and respecting those who are grapplilng with an ugly situation. But I say this not because I'm a Bush-backer. I say it because this is serious stuff in Iraq that is about more than bombs going off and Bush flubbing the job. I really wish the dems would understand this and put forward policy proposals which deal with the reality on the ground and not idealistic visions which don't serve America's national interests any better than what Rummy et. al. have produced to this point.
There comes a time when a leader has to say we tried, it did not work and it’s time to go home.
I think that Mr. Chamberlain tried something like that and we all know the results -- chickens inevitibly come home to roost when you don't deal with problems seriously and with eyes wide open.
Mr. Bush has a finite term and our system will determine who the next inhabitant of the White House will be in another year. Until then, he is the boss and we stand behind him and our troops.
Barry
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
Good post, (not that I agree with it all...
) Stick around Barry and join the foray.
Take Care,
B) UT
jerseyfinn
Senior
Good post, (not that I agree with it all...
Stick around Barry and join the foray.
Take Care,
B) UT
Thanks UT.
I enjoy poking around the water cooler as folks here are having earnest fun along with a little dialog thrown in. I just try to talk my own BS while I avoid stepping into my own mess. Hopefully folks see that I'm trying to walk around all sides of things while holding onto my own old-fart ideals.
Barry
local 12 proud
Veteran
- Mar 5, 2004
- 4,265
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jerseyfinn
Senior
Just be sure that you can distinguish between an old fart and a wet fart.
If in doubt, check your pants. :blink:
Barry
If in doubt, check your pants. :blink:
Barry
Garfield....looks like you hero's in congress aren't fairing
any better than Lonesome George:
Read and weep
I don't need no stinking timetable
Benchmarks like spelled out in his March 2004 address to congress....
any better than Lonesome George:
Read and weep
I don't need no stinking timetable
Benchmarks like spelled out in his March 2004 address to congress....
OP
Garfield1966
Veteran
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #41
``People are unhappy, there hasn't been a lot of change in direction, for example in Iraq,'' said Rep. Chris Van Hollen, D-Md., chairman of House Democrats' campaign effort.
Sounds like the people are unhappy that the Dems are not able to pass the legislation they want and over ride the POTUS. Perhaps in 2008 the voters will change those numbers.
Yes the putz agreed to benchmarks, but no punitive measures if the benchmarks are not achieved. Thus, the benchmarks are useless.
Sounds like the people are unhappy that the Dems are not able to pass the legislation they want and over ride the POTUS. Perhaps in 2008 the voters will change those numbers.
Yes the putz agreed to benchmarks, but no punitive measures if the benchmarks are not achieved. Thus, the benchmarks are useless.
local 12 proud
Veteran
- Mar 5, 2004
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NewHampshire Black Bears
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 10,154
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I pray HARD,(EVERY DAY) for the "SMIRKING CHIMP" to continue STRONG, for the next 20 months !!!!!!!!
Why ?
Because when this LITTLE TURD is finished, he will have set the GOP...So FAR back, that it will take them 16 years, before they re-gain the WH.
8 years of PRESIDENT CLINTON)(like in HILLARY), plus 8 MORE years of PRESIDENT OBAMA(former VP to HILLARY).
The Heritage Foundation, and Rutherford group members will ALL be on HEAVY ANTI-DEPRESSANTS, Rush LIMBO will most likely be in jail for "OXY",Ann Coulter will be using a "devise" on Sean Hannity, while Alan Coombs laughs himself into delirium, and the WORST of the WORST..."dick" CHENEY, will(most likely) be "DEAD" !
Wolfowitz will (very) Soon, be canned from the World Bank.
Gonzales(soon) will become an "Ambulance chaser"
LIBBY will be in the can, "taking-it-in-the-shorts", on a DAILY basis.
And Finally, ROVE will "cut a deal" with Patrick Fitzgerald(like in US ATTORNEY GENERAL Patrick Fitzgerald)(effective 1/20/09)
, and RAT OUT Everyone !!
Jesus,
In my WILDEST dreams, I could NOT have written the script any better !!
Always REMEMBER these words.
"Your either with us, or "AGIN" us"...........GWB !!
Rock on CHIMPO, rock on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NH/BB's
Why ?
Because when this LITTLE TURD is finished, he will have set the GOP...So FAR back, that it will take them 16 years, before they re-gain the WH.
8 years of PRESIDENT CLINTON)(like in HILLARY), plus 8 MORE years of PRESIDENT OBAMA(former VP to HILLARY).
The Heritage Foundation, and Rutherford group members will ALL be on HEAVY ANTI-DEPRESSANTS, Rush LIMBO will most likely be in jail for "OXY",Ann Coulter will be using a "devise" on Sean Hannity, while Alan Coombs laughs himself into delirium, and the WORST of the WORST..."dick" CHENEY, will(most likely) be "DEAD" !
Wolfowitz will (very) Soon, be canned from the World Bank.
Gonzales(soon) will become an "Ambulance chaser"
LIBBY will be in the can, "taking-it-in-the-shorts", on a DAILY basis.
And Finally, ROVE will "cut a deal" with Patrick Fitzgerald(like in US ATTORNEY GENERAL Patrick Fitzgerald)(effective 1/20/09)
, and RAT OUT Everyone !! Jesus,
In my WILDEST dreams, I could NOT have written the script any better !!
Always REMEMBER these words.
"Your either with us, or "AGIN" us"...........GWB !!
Rock on CHIMPO, rock on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NH/BB's
OP
Garfield1966
Veteran
- Thread Starter
- Thread starter
- #44
Reality bites huh Gar?
Not sure why it would. In my estimation, the people are pissed because the Dems do not yet have the power to do what the people asked of them, which is to extricate the US from Iraq. Assuming that Cheney and his band of merry boys continue down the path they are on, you are handing the Dems both houses of Congress and the POTUS on a platter.
The good thing about that is it will help stem the tide of the federal bench swinging to the right further than it has. The bad thing is it will end the grid lock that prevents Government from screwing up this country even more.
Reality is looking quite nice from the Dems. I can see how the Reps would be a tad worried though. You gys are starting to make us look organized.
local 12 proud
Veteran
- Mar 5, 2004
- 4,265
- 4
Oh, Im hoping you get your wish...
Got some property near fairbanks, lots of elk and salmon should be safe.
Got some property near fairbanks, lots of elk and salmon should be safe.
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