cactusboy53
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- May 9, 2007
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EastUS1 said:
Keep laughing DOROTHY, you're gonna need that sense of humor.
2015 Pilot Discussion.
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Keep laughing DOROTHY, you're gonna need that sense of humor.
nevergiveup
Veteran
- Nov 30, 2010
- 2,125
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nic4us said:
You guys want it so bad you are foaming at the mouth! In my life I've never seen a group want an award so badly!
cactusboy53
Veteran
- May 9, 2007
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Certainly no worse than your failed attempts to permanently evade the LIST (it really isn't an "award" now. Hasn't been since it was delivered to and accepted by the company).nevergiveup said:
Soon, DOROTHY.
cactusboy53 said:
Umm..."failed attempts"? Has it honestly and entirely escaped your notice that it's fast approaching the tenth anniversary of the nic abomination's announcement? One must seriously wonder just what you might envision as successful, rather than "failed attempts"...or do you extend your imaginings into geological time frames?
"Soon, DOROTHY."? Perhaps "you'se" have yet another of the infamous "T-minus" countdown clocks to offer? No matter, since we've been hearing all that same, petulant whining for the last ten years. Grow up.
cactusboy53
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WYE you be LYING, Dorothy-Boy?luvthe9 said:
nic is redone.nic4us said:
rico was a dog leash around your neck at the time, it worked.
LOA93 is insignificant to strength from attrition.
Labor peace, that was the west game, having your leader John Mcllvena in a west pilot meeting with Doug Parker, Scott Kirby and hemmmmingway, accusing East pilots of slowing down.
"The company will negotiate in a slowdown"? Please refer to above sentence.
West was parked in negotiation since 1983.
Oh by the way, Say hi to david braid, buy him some Kleenex for his 600,000 dollar loss since the inception of USAPA.
luvthe9
Veteran
- Aug 30, 2002
- 9,464
- 14,119
Keep dreaming fish boy...... You are by far the best liar on the board, Wye did you screw over your own pilot group?cactusboy53 said:
From: u-turn [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 11:59 PM
Subject: U-Turn: Taking Responsibility
Taking Responsibility
A recession is when you have to tighten your belt; depression is when you have no belt to tighten. When you've lost your trousers - you're in the airline business. Sir Adam Thomson
Over the past few U-Turns, weve noticed a change in the tone of comments weve received. Maybe the reality of what we are up against is finally sinking in. Some accused us of taking the quotes from the Freund rebuttal out of context. We didnt. Weve had requests for copies of Jeff Freunds actual East Vs West court documents. The file is too big to be directly cut and pasted. We can forward it in a scanned PDF-ZIP/Scan format. Just email us. Remember, we have no website, no budget and receive no donations. Maybe someone will paste it as an attachment on the AWAPPA web board for all to view. We would do it ourselves, but weve all been banned from the AWAPPA web board since May.
We have also received additional comments on what happened at Wye River from both sides. While our initial reporting appears to be correct and consistent with the latest accounts, it was incomplete. Heres additional information from both sides.
According to our reports, on Day One of Wye River, Jeff Freund warned the West MEC that if USAPA won, the West risked losing everything. He urged reaching an agreement. He was gone on Day Two. We wont address his motivation for leaving.
As Jeff Freund observed in his rebuttal to the East MEC lawsuit, the NIC was not in stone. And the loss of ALPA put it in real trouble. At least ALPA had the obligation, through the ALPA Merger Policy, to attempt to get the company to use the NIC Award.
ALPAs lawyers knew the list was negotiable, but they never told either rank and file. We attended last summers ALPA road shows in PHX, starring Paul Rice and a cast of ALPA attorneys. Did ALPA ever hint that the NIC was negotiable? We believe it was for fear of fanning the flames and drawing more support for USAPA that Herndon kept that from us. They did tell all the Wye River attendees the reality. One side listened, the other didnt.
In last summers East Vs West lawsuit, the East used ALPA DUES MONEY and an ALPA-Approved attorney, Roland Wilder, to pursue the case. As far as we can determine, we had to use our own Merger Fund money to defend ourselves. Thanks for choosing sides, ALPA! In the likely event that the NIC will be trashed in a single contract, it will be our own voluntary contributions that will have to be raised for a DFR lawsuit. USAPA expects it, so we shouldnt disappoint them. This could be an extremely costly effort that could drag on for years. U-Turn is not discouraging filing a DFR, and we need closure.
Jeff Freund is a top-notch lawyer. We have no doubt that he told our MEC the truth about how negotiable the NIC really was. The question is: why didnt CJ, Bendett, et al, listen? We figure that they either didnt believe him or after all their hairy-chested resolutions and hotlines, they were afraid to back down. What good are attorneys if you dont take their advice?
There is one other possibility. We mentioned it in a previous U-Turn. Our union leaders believed that the USAPA vote would be close (razors edge, to quote one of them) and that it was worth holding out and rolling the dice, figuring that if ALPA survived, so would the NIC. Too bad ALPA didnt explain the importance of the 30% of East pilots who refused to participate in the Wilson Polling.
We now have a better picture what the East MEC had on the table: an 8 year fence, furloughs by longevity (LOS), MDA time not counting for longevity, Dave ODell having 400 pilots below him, and the Nic surviving as THE LIST. Yes, the East offered the NIC. They just wanted to protect their retirement attrition, which stalled by the change in Age-60. Looking back, that offer must look like a home run to any West pilot right now, but last February the EAST MEC and ALPA couldnt get to first base with it.
Our former MEC and our union leadership played a very high stakes game of poker by not dealing at Wye River. Freund was right, we were risking everything..and right now, it looks like we lost. They need to take responsibility for that.
U-Turn
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apa news headlines, former west pilot producer of alpa, USAPA goatman video, running for apa national office;;;;;;;, video link to follow.
UPDATED LIST OF PILOTS RUNNING FOR NATIONAL OFFICE
PRESIDENT
Captain Daniel F. Carey
Captain Anthony R. Chapman
Captain Bill Gary
Captain Paul Renneisen
First Officer J. M. (Josey) Wales
Captain Tom Westbrook
Captain Graeham Andrew White
VICE PRESIDENT
First Officer Rob Baker
First Officer Timothy J. Hamel
Captain David Rintel
Captain David Schoppaul
Captain David Schoppaul, AKA, "Goatman" Video producer west pilot.
his USAPA president campaign video link;
https://vimeo.com/4421115
UPDATED LIST OF PILOTS RUNNING FOR NATIONAL OFFICE
PRESIDENT
Captain Daniel F. Carey
Captain Anthony R. Chapman
Captain Bill Gary
Captain Paul Renneisen
First Officer J. M. (Josey) Wales
Captain Tom Westbrook
Captain Graeham Andrew White
VICE PRESIDENT
First Officer Rob Baker
First Officer Timothy J. Hamel
Captain David Rintel
Captain David Schoppaul
Captain David Schoppaul, AKA, "Goatman" Video producer west pilot.
his USAPA president campaign video link;
https://vimeo.com/4421115
america west pilots do not talk much lately about their 2004 date of hire leaders eric ferguson and jeffry koontz.
If you happen to run in to these guys, west pilots, tell them from Claxon that they have not been grabbing their ankles firmly enough for my liking, one more message to them, bohica.
Their video bio links below;;;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V0oGznLDKI
If you happen to run in to these guys, west pilots, tell them from Claxon that they have not been grabbing their ankles firmly enough for my liking, one more message to them, bohica.
Their video bio links below;;;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8V0oGznLDKI
cactusboy53
Veteran
- May 9, 2007
- 2,649
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It's funny how those ancient videos making fun of yoy & USAPA make you all so very upset.
cactusboy53 said:
P.S. Rest assured the west's video library fails to make anyone "so very upset" for the reasons you might suppose. It's been more an issue of clinical interest in Arrested Development, coupled with admitted astonishment along the lines of "Seriously? Are we supposed to honestly assume these to be the products of even alleged adults?...Are "you'se" just f-in kidding us, or what?"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YT8H9smpK3U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIfKKw-kvPo
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