2015 Pilot Discussion.

[Claxon]

Hmmmmmmm......
 

• OLD ANSETT VIDEOS                                 or                        JUDGEMENT FROM DISTRICT COURT JUDGES
• ANCIENT "drug traffiicing" news stories        or                       TESTIMONY FROM THE COMPANY VP OF LEGAL
• Some irrelevant and non-factual blog          or                        THE WARNING FROM MIKE CLEARY

 
“…The Arbitration Board conducts an evidentiary hearing, with witnesses, evidence and a stenographic transcript. The Board’s Opinion and Award are to be issued simultaneously, within 150 days following the PID, unless both pilot groups and ALPA’s President agree to an extension. The Merger Policy provides, “The Award of the Arbitration Board shall be final and binding on all parties to the arbitration and shall be defended by ALPA.” No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts.”
 
US Airwaves June/July 2000
 
US Air Merger Committee Members: Todd Cardoza (PIT), Mike Cleary (BOS),Randy Mowery (PIT)

November 11, 2008 (Q&A in Phoenix with Doug Parker)

Pilot: . . . . My question though is I was at the hearing for the furloughed guys and one of the possibilities they were discussing is moving 190s to the west and can’t do that. You know why.

Parker: Why

Pilot: Binding arbitration. So the company believes in binding arbitration. We have a binding arbitration for seniority. Does the company believe in binding arbitration or not?

Parker: The binding arbitration you’re talking about I think – I’m pretty sure what you are talking about – that was an ALPA process that resulted in binding arbitration. That wasn’t a company process. That’s ALPA to ALPA seniority integration that says if you can’t get it resolved we go to binding arbitration is ALPA policy not company policy. If the company’s in binding arbitration, yea we believe in binding arbitration.

 

[Claxon]

Hmmmmmmm......
 

• OLD ANSETT VIDEOS                                 or                        JUDGEMENT FROM DISTRICT COURT JUDGES
• ANCIENT "drug traffiicing" news stories        or                       TESTIMONY FROM THE COMPANY VP OF LEGAL
• Some irrelevant and non-factual blog          or                        THE WARNING FROM MIKE CLEARY

 
The Arbitration Board conducts an evidentiary hearing, with witnesses, evidence and a stenographic transcript. The Boards Opinion and Award are to be issued simultaneously, within 150 days following the PID, unless both pilot groups and ALPAs President agree to an extension. The Merger Policy provides, The Award of the Arbitration Board shall be final and binding on all parties to the arbitration and shall be defended by ALPA. No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts.
 
US Airwaves June/July 2000
 
US Air Merger Committee Members: Todd Cardoza (PIT), Mike Cleary (BOS),Randy Mowery (PIT)

In the US Airways America West case, it went to binding arbitration but there was a requirement as part of that that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasnt done yet.

And because it wasnt done yet, the side that didnt like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened."

Scott Kirby


Your thoughts CB53? Can you explain the fact that 9 yrs later, the Nicolau List is NOT in use? Perhaps east pilots and Scott Kirby are correct. You never got your JCBA. You never got the Nic other than a position of argument without factual proof of use.
Your response?

 

[EastUS1]

 
[SIZE=12pt]Freund:   "....... if one were to take the American pilots out, ....[/SIZE]
 

 
Sigh....Seriously? So what IS the "spartan" ops plan for taking the American pilots out of the process?

 

[Claxon]

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2012/05/kirby-we-expect-an-amr-us-airw.html/
Kirby: We expect an AMR-US Airways merger to resolve our pilot seniority dispute


By Terry Maxon
[email protected]
11:36 am on May 17, 2012 | Permalink



comments (0)
US Airways president Scott Kirby said Thursday that the airline believes a merger with AMR and American Airlines will help US Airways resolve the prolonged seniority dispute of pilots at US Airways.

Responding to a question at the Bank of America Merrill Lynch conference, Kirby talked about the dispute between pilots of US Airways and America West Airlines after the 2005 merger about how they would combine their seniority lists.

Here is his answer at the conference.

“Yeah. It’s ironic but the solution to that issue at US Airways I think it’s probably because we’re able to get this deal done. The area that people focus on the most is USAPA, our pilots’ union. In this case there is a huge benefit for our pilots in getting the deal done. They can go to the new contract at American, which is a very large pay raise for the US Airways pilots. So as I fly around the system, as I talk to the union leadership at USAPA, they want the deal to happen and they want us to get it done and they are working cooperatively with us and with APA to get the deal done.

“As to the seniority integration issue, I think this is the way out of the box for them. For those of you that follow the industry, there has been this seniority fight between the former US Airways and the former America West pilots. And as long as that seniority dispute is happening and isn’t resolved by a court, they really can’t negotiate a single agreement with the company because they can’t agree on what’s going to happen with seniority. And they are waiting for a court to answer that question for them.

“This is a way to start over and — not start over completely, but at least have a fresh beginning. Today, you know what, the analogy I use is that they painted themselves into a corner into a room, and neither side can compromise. This is a way to start the process over in a new integration.

“There is also federal legislation, the McCaskill-Bond legislation, which will mandate binding arbitration. So the plan in this case is that our union and APA combined will have a joint contract, and we will have that hopefully on the day we close the merger, assuming we do.

“That contract will be in place and so there will be a joint contract in place. And then more than likely the seniority issue will go through a process and ultimately get to arbitration. But because we will already have a joint contract in place, that arbitration will be binding. It will just get implemented.

“In the US Airways – America West case, it went to binding arbitration but there was a requirement as part of that that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasn’t done yet.

“And because it wasn’t done yet, the side that didn’t like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened.

“In this case, there’ll be a joint contract in advance, and the seniority integration will happen.

“I’m encouraged that USAPA and APA, the two respective unions, are working well together and working jointly with the company. So I am optimistic that this ironically solves the largest hangover from the US Airways – America West transaction.”

USAPA refers to US Airline Pilots Association, the new union set up by pilots from the original US Airways after they didn’t like the seniority decision that favored pilots from the former America West. APA is the Allied Pilots Association, the union that represents American Airlines pilots.

 

[EastUS1]

[SIZE=12pt]US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit                                                                       26 June 2015[/SIZE]
.....
[SIZE=12pt]Accordingly, we reverse the district court’s conclusion that USAPA did not breach its duty of fair representation, and remand with instructions to enjoin USAPA from participating in the McCaskill-Bond proceedings except to the extent that USAPA will advocate the Nicolau Award..”[/SIZE]
 

 
"You'se" clever little "spartans." What a grand and truly magnificent coup was managed by PHX in courtrooms.  So, umm.....just who on the east group actually did end up having to "advocate the Nicolau Award"?...Besides no one?

 

[Phoenix]

Freund:   "Okay.  And would it be fair to say that in looking at this slide, if one were to take the American pilots out, what we would see would be Rick Brown's substituted judgment as the new George Nicolau with respect to the relationship between the East pilots and the West pilots?"
I

Rick Brown SLI cross-examination                                                                      January 06, 2016

  

Sigh....Seriously? So what IS the "spartan" ops plan for taking the American pilots out of the process?

Take it easy on him. His sophistry is selling lots of ties!

 

[cactusboy53]

In the US Airways America West case, it went to binding arbitration but there was a requirement as part of that that the two unions negotiate a joint contract with the company, which wasnt done yet.
And because it wasnt done yet, the side that didnt like it could prevent a joint contract from getting done. And because of that, the seniority integration never happened."
Scott Kirby
Your thoughts CB53? Can you explain the fact that 9 yrs later, the Nicolau List is NOT in use? Perhaps east pilots and Scott Kirby are correct. You never got your JCBA. You never got the Nic other than a position of argument without factual proof of use.
Your response?

You're relying upon a words spoken by management that espoused words, that while "NEUTRAL", allowed the company to EXPLOIT the CHEAPEST PI LOT LABOR GROUP.....sure, I can see your logic... pretzel logic.

That on top of the fact that you're a cheat & liar. Savvy?

 

[cactusboy53]

One only has to look at Continental, United, and arbitrator Eishen in that award to see where this is going, a DFR on 10h a Kirby insert will not ensure any NIC, the 9th was powerless despite any outside political influence to influence a M/B list. Especially with chatter in crew news about the Pilot T, return to AA, My guess wear those ties proud fully, you showed us! OBTW, my dues were a tax deduction , thanx! Now beat your chests proudly!

Then I'm sure you have nothing to worry about.... RIGHT?

 

[cactusboy53]

Take it easy on him. His sophistry is selling lots of ties!

So, if a US District Court Judge (s) rules that the Westicles get a bunch of $$ of the treasury, does that mean YOU paid for my tie, Scotty?

 

[Phoenix]

So, if a US District Court Judge (s) rules that the Westicles get a bunch of $$ of the treasury, does that mean YOU paid for my tie, Scotty?

If you ever actually get all your dues returned plus $675 then you can claim "Scotty," or any other fictitious internet friend, bought you the most gaudy of all consolation prizes. Good luck!!

 

[Claxon]

You're relying upon a words spoken by management that espoused words, that while "NEUTRAL", allowed the company to EXPLOIT the CHEAPEST PI LOT LABOR GROUP.....sure, I can see your logic... pretzel logic.
That on top of the fact that you're a cheat & liar. Savvy?

Will the Former PHX rep, please explain why if that action was solely managements decision- why, after MILLIONS spent, is the Nicolau List NOT used on any bid put out by the company, past or present? He cannot. The talk is false and cheap. The ties? Not so much......

 

[EastUS1]

So, if a US District Court Judge (s) rules that the Westicles get a bunch of $$ of the treasury, does that mean YOU paid for my tie, Scotty?

 
"So, if"...? Yet another day for "you'se" in the land of "if" and "It is our hope (once again)". Nothing new to see there...and to think this thread was once overflowing with the likes of "Final and Binding!...It's OVER, get used to it!" and of course how "The nic will be crammed down your throats!"

 

[Phoenix]

I heard there are some former TWA pilots out West.. And I heard that the ALPA lawsuit netted them $100... Soooo, they only have to win $575 from USAPA to break even on their tie!!

"If"! Good luck!!

 

[exB717Flyer]

I heard there are some former TWA pilots out West.. And I heard that the ALPA lawsuit netted them $100..

Yes, there are about 25 ex-TWAers (Letter T pilots) still at America West.  The ALPA DFR lawsuit payout followed a modified bell curve where the minimum payout was $200 and the maximum was $32,000.

 

[nic4us]

I heard there are some former TWA pilots out West.. And I heard that the ALPA lawsuit netted them $100... Soooo, they only have to win $575 from USAPA to break even on their tie!!

"If"! Good luck!!

 
Perhaps you also heard there are former USAir pilots out West.  Nicolau saw that their AWA employed position had a much greater career earnings expectation than their furloughed USAir position and made their AWA number senior to their furloughed (likely never to be recalled) position.
 
Then a scab union came along and screwed them and all LCC pilots out of hundreds of thousands of dollars each.
 
I see them regularly wearing $675 ties.