2015 Pilot Discussion.

[cactusboy53]

Sure flounder, another swing and a BIG miss......you keep on trying to convince yourself that.



Fishbowl ring a bell....

 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KoKWf6pLs8

 

[cactusboy53]

 
....and yet the LAA guys said this about Susie:
 

• "Btw I think Ms. Edwards did a great job , it's a unrealistic schedule."  JZ
• 
  "It was meant to have pilots watch a someone stand up to management and take them to task.  If you have not seen it, watch it.
  Agree or disagree with her complaints, giver her credit. It is the first time I have seen a pilot put them on the ropes."  JT
  
• 
  "Bravo to PHX 757 FO Suzie Edwards! If any one out there knows how I might be able to get in touch with this pilot, could you please call me, or get a hold of her to call me..." GS
  
• 
  "I salute this young lady for standing up and laying it out there.."  RM
  
• 
  "That was a beautiful thing Suzy. The LAA side has been flying this crap for years without so much as a hiccup or whisper from the union and past practice will be shoved in our faces. What I find incredible is that the head of the FMRS program was not aware of these pairings." DF
  

It's pretty funny when STUPID stuff just rolls out of your pie hole.  Keep up the good work.

 
OK...two -2 votes....because I found actual quotes of LAA pilots that appreciated Suzie's tenacity??  You guys "JUST DON'T GET IT" do you?  I just can't wait to see your response to the BOA's delivered list.

 

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]“…The Arbitration Board conducts an evidentiary hearing, with witnesses, evidence and a stenographic transcript. The Board’s Opinion and Award are to be issued simultaneously, within 150 days following the PID, unless both pilot groups and ALPA’s President agree to an extension. The Merger Policy provides, “The Award of the Arbitration Board shall be final and binding on all parties to the arbitration and shall be defended by ALPA.” No ALPA seniority integration arbitration result has ever been set aside by the courts although some dissatisfied pilots have challenged the award before administrative agencies and the courts.”[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]US Airwaves June/July 2000[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]US Air Merger Committee Members: NAME REDACTED FOR CRYBABIES (PIT), NAME REDACTED FOR CRYBABIES [/SIZE](BOS),[SIZE=12pt]NAME REDACTED FOR CRYBABIES [/SIZE] (PIT)

 

 

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]The Board shall retain jurisdiction[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] in accordance with Section H. 5 .b. of the ALPA Merger Policy to resolve any disputes over the meaning or interpretation of this Award. This retention of jurisdiction shall terminate when all provisions of the Award have been satisfied. In the event the Chairman becomes unavailable or unwilling to serve to resolve such disputes, the Merger Committees will agree on a replacement Chairman or will select one by the alternate strike method from the most recent ALPA list of seniority integrations arbitrators.  In the event one of the Pilot Neutrals becomes unable or unwilling to serve on the Arbitration Board to resolve such disputes, the Chairman, after consultation with the Parties, shall decide how to proceed.  In any such arbitration, if there is a dispute between the methodology contained in the Award and the accompanying Integrated Seniority List or any other list purportedly using such methodology, the Seniority List prevails.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]George Nicolau, Mediator[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]AWA/AAA Opinion & Award; May 07, 2007[/SIZE]

 

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]“Of course, in negotiating for a particular seniority regime, USAPA must not breach its duty of fair representation. Accordingly, if USAPA wishes to abandon the Nicolau Award and accept the consequences of this course of action, it is free to do so.  By discarding the result of a valid arbitration and negotiating for a different seniority regime, USAPA is running the risk that it will be sued by the disadvantaged pilots when the new collective bargaining agreement is finalized. An impartial arbitrator’s decision regarding an appropriate method of seniority integration is powerful evidence of a fair result. Discarding the Nicolau Award places USAPA on dangerous ground.”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Judge Roslyn O. Silver, Chief United States District Judge[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]No. CV-10-01570-PHX-ROS ORDER; October 11, 2012[/SIZE]

 

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]“Actually, it is USAPA that is needlessly delaying the resolution of the seniority dispute and jeopardizing the enforceability of the agreement the parties are able to reach. …….The arbitrator’s decision was to be final and binding on both pilot groups and was to be accepted by the Company so long as certain conditions were met.  The Nicolau Award has resulted in four years of litigation including a trial in federal court and jury verdict finding USAPA’s proposal for a non-Nicolau list to constitute an unlawful breach of the union’s duty of fair representation….”[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]Paul D. Jones; Vice President – Legal Affairs and Chief Compliance Officer[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]Exhibit 1 of  Declaration of Counsel; Case 13-15000, 02/20/2013[/SIZE]

 

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]In the matter of: Preliminary Arbitration Board APA/USAPA/AA (December 17, 2014)[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]ARBITRATOR JAVITS: All three lists. I guess the gravamen of the questions is are you then putting yourself in the place of Nicolau, are you the new Nicolau because you are proposing a list which may not reflect Nicolau's list? ….. And American pilots. And, therefore, you're making a proposal, which may be different than what Nicolau had in mind and issued back in '07.[/SIZE]
 

[SIZE=12pt]MR. FREUND (in closing): As the Chairman put it so nicely in his questioning of Jess Pauley, what the US -- what the East Committee, the US Airways Committee, the USAPA Committee, call it what you want, what it wants to do is to put itself in the place of George Nicolau and redo what George did in 2007.[/SIZE]
 
[SIZE=12pt]These arbitrators got it.  I'm sure the BOA know this as well.[/SIZE]

 

[Phoenix]

Don't be surprised if the AA guys do the same........keep it tied up for awhile would be welcome!

I doubt the courts will issue any injunction to undo the implementation upon publication of the list. It's done this time. The last delay was only caused by the pilots.. The courts were just a convenient distraction.

 

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]From “A Conversation with an Attorney” - between NAME REDACTED FOR CRYBABIES &  Chris Katzenbach of Katzenbach and Khitikan, a labor law firm (Chris Katzenbach point):  “Don't give the other side a large body of evidence that the sole reason for the new union is to abrogate an arbitration, the Nicolau award, that in the opinions of most judges, should be allowed to stand due to no gross negligence or fraud.” [/SIZE]
 

[SIZE=12pt]This in response to NAME REDACTED FOR CRYBABIES[/SIZE] saying the following:  “I next specifically asked him about the formation of a new bargaining agent as an avenue of advance to get around this award…”

 

[cactusboy53]

[SIZE=12pt]US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit                                                                       26 June 2015[/SIZE]
 

[SIZE=12pt]“…USAPA has served as the stalking horse for the East Pilots’ exclusive interests and left the West Pilots bereft of representation.  USAPA’s manifest disregard for the interests of the West Pilots and its discriminatory conduct towards them constitutes a clear breach of duty.  Accordingly, we reverse the district court’s conclusion that USAPA did not breach its duty of fair representation, and remand with instructions to enjoin USAPA from participating in the McCaskill-Bond proceedings except to the extent that USAPA will advocate the Nicolau Award..”[/SIZE]

 

[luvthe9]

Desperate again tonight Dorothy........Project Wingman........we are waiting for your call.

 

[cactusboy53]

Desperate again tonight Dorothy........Project Wingman........we are waiting for your call.

 
Not desperate at all luvr.  I'm just trying to prepare you for what dreams may come.  Court dicta and instruction is very instructive and should be considered.  The list will be delivered and someone will react.  Hang on and see what is dropped in your lap.  You might even win the "lottery".

 

[FL430]

OK...two -2 votes....because I found actual quotes of LAA pilots that appreciated Suzie's tenacity??  You guys "JUST DON'T GET IT" do you?  I just can't wait to see your response to the BOA's delivered list.

How about some quotes from some of your crybaby western brothers:

Drop the trip how?

ALL the 757 pilots are working minimum days off (12) for minimum credit. there is no one to pick up extra trips. reserve is going senior so if you are junior they can't even bid away from flying.

We do not have required bids. So even if someone wanted to get off the airplane they are stuck. For the last 10 years PHX has not had a new captain upgrade. Zero.

While we have had 450 west pilots retire or quit we have only have 50 new hires in 10 years. so we are not even replacing our own attrition. The only thing we have heard from management is screw your PHX, you get nothing.

You heard Stone. They really tried to figure out how to get PHX involved but after 10 years just can't do it. But east pilots and natives get vacancy bids, upgrades, training and new hires right up to the last minute. PHX gets nothing.

I heard from John Hale 2.5 years ago that same bull **** Stone was spouting. One team, one fight. except they have never included the west pilots in that team. So when Isom or Kirby or Stone address PHX pilots as "team" or "team members" it is fucking insulting.

And another:

There has to be a vacancy bid in order to bid something else. We have not had a vacancy bid in over a year. We have only had about 5 bids in the last 5 years. They were very clear there will not be another bid for the west until FOS and an SLI. In fact they have shut down our vacancy system so we could not bid off the 757 even if management decided they would allow it.

Sounds great to just bid something else like every other pilot at this airline. But management made a decision a long time ago to lock PHX up and lock PHX in with zero opportunity while those opportunities when to other pilots.

The west has had zero new captains in the last 10 years. In 2008 they downgraded 150 captains. So far they have only re upgraded about 102 captains. On the other hand east pilots that were furloughed in 2005, 300 deep are sitting in the left seat of a GII aircraft.

The west has lost 450 pilots but only had 50 new hires in 10 years. How many thousands has the new American hired since 2013? zero have come to the west.

Not really the lottery ticket some people make it out to be.




Waaaaaa!

 

[FL430]

US Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit                                                                       26 June 2015
 

“…USAPA has served as the stalking horse for the East Pilots’ exclusive interests and left the West Pilots bereft of representation.  USAPA’s manifest disregard for the interests of the West Pilots and its discriminatory conduct towards them constitutes a clear breach of duty.  Accordingly, we reverse the district court’s conclusion that USAPA did not breach its duty of fair representation, and remand with instructions to enjoin USAPA from participating in the McCaskill-Bond proceedings except to the extent that USAPA will advocate the Nicolau Award..”

You are really going to be disappointed this Friday. The SLI will be released right after the east equipment bid results posted. None of what you have been posting will matter. What does any of that have to do with legacy aa pilots? The arbs have to be fair to them as well don't they? All ten thousand. You are going to get exactly what you bring to this merger, a financially underperforming hub, soon to be a focus city. You are lucky to be flying 24% of former east flying or 370 more of your western brothers would be furloughed or flying east. Your yields are low because of SWA competition in a mostly leisure market, POS worn out aircraft, and be thankful Dougie waited till after the ARB board met to announce your training center closure.
Isom told you guys at the last crew news, you are lucky to be here.

 

[luvthe9]

Not desperate at all luvr.  I'm just trying to prepare you for what dreams may come.  Court dicta and instruction is very instructive and should be considered.  The list will be delivered and someone will react.  Hang on and see what is dropped in your lap.  You might even win the "lottery".

I can't wait, by the way is O'Dell still on the property or did he bail?



This is all you have to remember


"Our former MEC and our union leadership played a very high stakes game of poker by not dealing at Wye River. Freund was right, we were risking everything..and right now, it looks like we lost. They need to take responsibility for that."

U-Turn




You helped screw your pilot group over.........give us a call sometime, we're here for you.