2011 Executive Bonusses

[eolesen]

How is that any different than you guys cherry-picking the best contracts available in the industry and setting that as your target?

 

[strikeforce]

How is that any different than you guys cherry-picking the best contracts available in the industry and setting that as your target?

Big difference....3 years of negotiating dollar and cents contracts with greedy scum bags vs. Having your frat buddy decide lucrative compensation packages worth millions for Arpey.

 

[Birdman]

How is that any different than you guys cherry-picking the best contracts available in the industry and setting that as your target?

The difference is "you guys" are made up of overpaid internAAtional reps that already have "theirs" and only fight for "ours" when "theirs" is threatened.

 

[strikeforce]

How is that any different than you guys cherry-picking the best contracts available in the industry and setting that as your target?

Would be a true statement if theTWU proposed SWA or UPS wages, but they didn't!

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

How is that any different than you guys cherry-picking the best contracts available in the industry and setting that as your target?

Eric,

It is not cherry-picking. All that is being done is what the twu international should do EVERY contract negotiation. That is seek out an INDUSTRY LEADING contract but since the twu international is completely out of touch with the membership, because they are NOT elected by the membership nor do they live under the very contracts they negotiate for us, we the membership must point out the contracts that are superior to ours and "target" those. It is suppose to be called "leap-frogging". That is where the bar is constantly raised for our craft and profession. The ONLY problem is that when it comes to "leap-frogging" at contract time here at AA with the twu in the driver's seat (pun intended) my craft and class do indeed mend over but it isn't to have someone jump over us. 🙂

 

[Hopeful]

How is that any different than you guys cherry-picking the best contracts available in the industry and setting that as your target?

So it's ok for the upper class of this company and no one else?
When management says they need to compensate their executive staff, it is to keep the "talent."
But they could care less about compensating any of the peons.

 

[eolesen]

Don't you see a connection on how negotiating with your frat buddy works for management, and Southwest's unions success?

Working together isn't just a catch phrase, guys... You don't need to kiss ass, but you do need to have some decent working relationships if you want to make gains.

The problem is you have an ineffective representatives doing the negotiating, be it the international, or using laypeople like Bob.

You'd rather go in and be confrontational with management & make demands...

Try that with your wife & kids, and let me know how it goes. Maybe family dynamics aren't much different that labor/management...

 

[Hopeful]

Don't you see a connection on how negotiating with your frat buddy works for management, and Southwest's unions success?

Working together isn't just a catch phrase, guys... You don't need to kiss ass, but you do need to have some decent working relationships if you want to make gains.

The problem is you have an ineffective representatives doing the negotiating, be it the international, or using laypeople like Bob.

You'd rather go in and be confrontational with management & make demands...

Try that with your wife & kids, and let me know how it goes. Maybe family dynamics aren't much different that labor/management...

Did you ever think that maybe ONCE, the company is not being reasonable and acting in good faith?
We are under concessions for 8 years running now....And I do not think it is too much to ask for something one had 8 years ago.
the union has faults as many of us know. but believe it or not, so does the company.
Not EVERYTHING they say is the truth. Not EVERYTHING they say they need from employees in order to survive is gospel.
Just as I don't always believe what my union leaders tell me is the true, the same goes for my management.
The never ending debate is and always will be is the fact that people such as yourself see management as the ones with all the right moves. I beg to differ.

I do not believe it is all that unreasonable to ask for things we had 8 years ago. Maybe you do, I don't.

The company has yet to respond with their counter offer..Instead they used the AA negotiations media outlet to basically say GO SCREW YOURSELVES without actually using those words.
Don't you think it would be in good faith and productive to come back with a counter proposal in detail of what they don't like?
All we have heard is whispers that the company wants this and the company wants that.
PUT IN WRITING IN AN OFFICAL COUNTER PROPOSAL.
I don't think that is too much to ask.
If the company claims they can't pay us what SWA and UPS and FDX pays BECAUSE we still have OH.....THEN SAY IT!
(Not that i am supporting getting rid of OH, let's be clear)

All we hear is that AA is uncompetive....PUT IT IN WRITING IN DETAIL!

And one more thing, Eric...

You say we should not make demands and not be confrontational and have a better relationship with management.
Let me tell you this....
THE TWU HAS DONE NOTHING BUT BEND OVER BACKWARDS FOR THIS COMPANY. THEY HAVE VIRTUALLY HELPED FORCE FEED US SOME OF THE WORST CONTRACTS IN AVIATION HISTORY OVER THE PAST 30 YEARS.

There has never been a "better" relationship in the airline industry.

Granting sexual favors on behalf of the members for over 30 years is good enough reason to "restore and more."

 

[strikeforce]

Don't you see a connection on how negotiating with your frat buddy works for management, and Southwest's unions success?

Working together isn't just a catch phrase, guys... You don't need to kiss ass, but you do need to have some decent working relationships if you want to make gains.

The problem is you have an ineffective representatives doing the negotiating, be it the international, or using laypeople like Bob.

You'd rather go in and be confrontational with management & make demands...

Try that with your wife & kids, and let me know how it goes. Maybe family dynamics aren't much different that labor/management...

If management was more SINCERE about Shared Sacrifice maybe union & management would have a better relationship. Like I said before...nothing has changed since 2003 except OUR pay.....still a wastefull and money losing operation on 22 billion in revenue; management is a DO Nothing/Not Held Accountable & Incompetent bunch of idiots; and executives that continue to reward themselves with bonuses. And YOU want us to work together. Are YOU serious? Compare this to a frugal husband married to a HIGH maintenance wife.....no difference!

 

[eolesen]

I'm not holding management blameless here. And I'm on record since 2003 speaking against the bonus plans and need for any form of retention program beyond a paycheck for work performed to date.

They've said what they can afford. Maybe not as bluntly as you want them to, but the message was loud and clear when they said cost neutral.

 

[TIME FOR CHANGE]

but the message was loud and clear when they said cost neutral.

Here is my message
Cost neutral is a strike issue
so release us allready

I'm tired of waiting for the inevitable

 

[Hopeful]

I'm not holding management blameless here. And I'm on record since 2003 speaking against the bonus plans and need for any form of retention program beyond a paycheck for work performed to date.

They've said what they can afford. Maybe not as bluntly as you want them to, but the message was loud and clear when they said cost neutral.

So we MUST believe them at their word? They are so forthright and honest that their position is the end all?
A management who claims that they must continue to compensate themselves to retain their TALENT?
You see, Eric, for many years AA made money DESPITE themsleves. Despite some bad decisions. But they made money. They were so accustomed to it that nothing else mattered.
And like the teacher's union in Wisconsin, they too understood and agreed for the need to reduce labor costs.
We did our part EIGHT years ago.
I want AA to reduce their management, but instead they're hiring 11 AIRCRAFT MAINTENANCE SUPERVISORS AT JFK ALONE....11??????????????????????????????????????????????????

Typical AArogant Airline management decisons.


Eight years ago, Eric, were raped....It is time for them to be punished for their crimes and make restitution.

 

[FWAAA]

So we MUST believe them at their word? They are so forthright and honest that their position is the end all?
A management who claims that they must continue to compensate themselves to reatin their TALENT?

They have not said nearly enough.... What they can "afford" can easily have a dollar value placed on it.
But they want more and more.

Eight years ago, Eric, were raped....It is time for them to be punished for their crimes and make restitution.

Wow.

So for how many years will you and your colleagues continue to stand by your abuser (AA) instead of leaving the abusive rapist spouse? Take your valuable skills and put them to more productive use elsewhere, already. You're standing by your abusive spouse hoping they win the lottery so then you can finally squeeze them for some dough. And let's face it: it's looking less and less likely that AA will ever show a repeat of the late 1990's record profits.

Punish? Make restitution? Hardly.

 

[Hopeful]

Wow.

So for how many years will you and your colleagues continue to stand by your abuser (AA) instead of leaving the abusive rapist spouse? Take you valuable skills and put them to more productive use elsewhere, already. You're standing by your abusive spouse hoping they win the lottery so then you can finally squeeze them for some dough. And let's face it: it's looking less and less likely that AA will ever show a repeat of the late 1990's record profits.

Punish? Make restitution? Hardly.

Maybe people like you bounce around from company to company looking for better opportunity. But those of us like myself put in 30-40 years. We are not going to sell ourselves any more by starting all over at another firm.
We did not earn what we are earning now when we began.
When the big shots leave a company, whether by their own accord or were politley let go, those people usually transition to an equal or better position.
WHY? Because that is the management world.

People like me who use their hands AND minds to make a living, usually have to start all over again.

AINT GONNA HAPPEN!

And as for the abusive spouse...I can tell you this, that after the company's latest AArogant response, people other than the excutives in this company are going to start paying a price.
You know, like the people who pay our salaries?

 

[eolesen]

And as for the abusive spouse...I can tell you this, that after the company's latest AArogant response, people other than the excutives in this company are going to start paying a price.
You know, like the people who pay our salaries?

Oh, it's the old "you're mad at the wife so you kick the dog or beat the kid" scenario?

Please. The dog will eventually bite, and kids get taught in school how to call CPS. Neither will help you deal with the abusive wife, unless being thrown out of your house counts.