1st Quarter Results

[LukeAisleWalker]

I guess it's just my lot in life to keep trying to correct this misconception (or baldface lie depending on the poster's motives) about the McCaskill AMENDMENT passed by Congress.

First off, there is no new LAW. It was an amendment to an appropriations bill IIRC.
Second, it does NOT protect seniority in a merger. What the amendment says is that the two merging workgroups must negotiate in good faith to reach an agreement regarding the merger of the two seniority lists. If the groups are unable to come to an agreement, then the issue will be subject to binding arbitration.

The important point to remember if you are affected is that there is not one word in the amendment which requires the arbitrator to do anything other than what arbitrators have always done. Reach a decision which is binding on both groups. Though highly unlikely, the arbitrator could legally staple one group to the bottom of the other's seniority list and it would be binding on both groups.

If for no other reasons, this is why the DL f/as should vote for APA representation. Then the issue is straight DOH between two AFA represented groups. In arbitration there is always risk for both sides. (See also the binding arbitration demanded by the US East pilots regarding US East/West seniority.)

Jim..Thanks for the recap. You'll have to forgive those two..they are in WAAAYYY over their heads, and I don't even think they're FAs. I wonder why they are so concerned about the FAs joining a union. I know of NOT ONE DL FA who knows anything about the union drives on the ramp. We're too busy dealing with getting matters together in our own house. Maybe they're like the Gladys Kravitz's (nosy neighbor on Bewitched, if you remember that show!) of Delta.

 

[Ch. 12]

Jim..Thanks for the recap. You'll have to forgive those two..they are in WAAAYYY over their heads, and I don't even think they're FAs. I wonder why they are so concerned about the FAs joining a union. I know of NOT ONE DL FA who knows anything about the union drives on the ramp. We're too busy dealing with getting matters together in our own house. Maybe they're like the Gladys Kravitz's (nosy neighbor on Bewitched, if you remember that show!) of Delta.

Yet every union member thinks they need to run mgmt? Ironic statement, Luke.

 

[Come Fly with Me]

AP
Delta CEO received pay package of $11.3M for 4 months in '07
Thursday April 24, 6:09 pm ET
By Harry R. Weber, AP Business Writer
Delta CEO received pay package of $11.3 million for 4 months in 2007, proxy shows


To all you anti-union peeps..........you still don't want a contract.

You get your money regardless of the company's financial state. Let's face it Delta didn't post a profit in the fourth quarter last year. That's the same time this clown took over and chase away Whitehurst.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

11 million for 4 months of service????...and to think that Leo Mullin was considered a money hog!


So that's where my industry standard pay went!

 

[Come Fly with Me]

11 million for 4 months of service????...and to think that Leo Mullin was considered a money hog!


So that's where my industry standard pay went!

Amen brother........I'm glad someone sees the light.

 

[Ch. 12]

Amen brother........I'm glad someone sees the light.

Give me a break. I can't even believe you're going to make me defend this b/c I abhor inflated salaries, etc, but the guy made less than 500k in salary. He made nearly all of the 11M through stock options. That means, very simply, that he had the option to pay a small amount in order to convert x Million worth of options if the stock price hit certain targets. In other words...he makes this compensation off of Wall Street's back...not DL's. Simple understanding of finances will help to keep the spin that you're trying to generate in check. But that doesn't serve the purpose you're getting at, does it?

 

[Come Fly with Me]

Give me a break. I can't even believe you're going to make me defend this b/c I abhor inflated salaries, etc, but the guy made less than 500k in salary. He made nearly all of the 11M through stock options. That means, very simply, that he had the option to pay a small amount in order to convert x Million worth of options if the stock price hit certain targets. In other words...he makes this compensation off of Wall Street's back...not DL's. Simple understanding of finances will help to keep the spin that you're trying to generate in check. But that doesn't serve the purpose you're getting at, does it?

I don't care where he get's it.......I just want my industry standard pay is that too much to ask?

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Yet every union member thinks they need to run mgmt? Ironic statement, Luke.

Every union member doesn't think they need to run mgmt, CH 12. That is an incredibly broad statement. I hope you don't start in with any more prejudicial statements regarding other groups and how they do things...drive, work, dance, etc...
With that being said, it doesn't matter what a union member thinks, it's what he/she does. And what they do is NEGOTIATE with management.
Now, I'm curious about something. You keep running around looking for Danny to answer your questions. BTW, he's answered most of those before. If you do a search on his profile under "posts" you'll probably find many of the answers. He is busy running a huge campaign. But my curiosity is that you are often guilty of what you charge others of....not answering/avoiding the tough questions. When you're confronted with your uneducated statements, rather than staying on topic, you spin off onto something else. Why is that, CH 12?
Let the DL FAs who have had the cajones to step up and question mgt (not try to run it), the tenacity/sweat to get the cards signed and the strong will to get out this vote alone now. When we're done with the race, maybe we'll have time to get in the weeds with you.
BTW, Did you watch CSpan's coverage of the NW/DL hearings yesterday? Did you notice Mr.Anderson's non-commital answer regarding the question about interfering/suppressing the AFA campaign and remaining neutral?
In case you missed it, here's part of the press release:

Rep. Betty Sutton (D-OH) grilled Anderson regarding current labor relations and asked if management had responded to the letter signed by 26 U.S. Senators requesting Delta’s neutrality in the current Delta flight attendant election. Anderson’s reply was to simply repeat the carrier’s commitment to the democratic process. When Rep. Sutton reiterated her question as to whether Delta would commit to neutrality, Anderson supplied a series of veiled responses. Rep. Sutton confronted Anderson on his failure to answer the question regarding whether the carrier would remain neutral in the AFA-CWA representation election, and entered into the official record his reluctance to commit to neutrality.

 

[Ch. 12]

Luke-

Seems that truth has struck a nerve? Blaming mgmt for the economy and then saying that they should "simply raise fares" is trying to run mgmt and shows ignorance to how economics work. Blaming mgmt across the board for inflated capacity yet for every flight that UA, AA, DL, NW, etc pulls down, FL, WN, and B6 are back-filling with 2 is also an ignorant position. But all of these torts from the unions are ok? You stance is 'stay out of my business'...well what business do you have telling mgmt what they should be doing? Again...one thing we are in complete agreement on is exec pay but as others have shown here...people don't seem to grasp stock options, etc. Now...if the stance continues to be "stay out of my business" then I think you should have zero input into wages, work rules, or any other mgmt decisions. Do I really believe that employees should be completely voiceless? Hell no. But have unions become bastardized forms of what their original purpose was? Definitely. What unions used to protect now boil down to human/civil rights and are even more protected. But to use the union to drive mgmt decisions and limit how a business can respond to economic situations (see what AQ pilots are doing now to try to completely shut down the airline's remaining business...the cargo division) doesn't make sense if you want everybody else to stay out of your business.

And no...I missed that press release. Sounds fairly sensational and with an agenda, though. I say...'who cares'? Should I start a petition to have Anderson guarantee that he will NOT be neutral? What a waste of time? This is just the same idiotic politicing done in our gov't that keeps anything from getting done and is meant to try to spin the perception towards people thinking that Anderson will NOT be neutral. It's propaganda. Same as saying that 75% of international FAs will be laid off. Same as lieing about the exec makeup and saying that NW will be running the show. No...Danny has not answered my questions elsewhere b/c they are not scripted from the AFA faqs. I asked about finances (same question he asks of the companies). I asked why misleading statements have been made to try to drum up fear. The questions I have asked I would hope you would be concerned about but perhaps the marvelous tale spun by the AFA is too strong for you to get past and think about holding them to the same standards as mgmt.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm all FOR unions and what they are supposed to stand for...fighting against TRULY hazardous working conditions, TRULY unethical treatment of employees, TRULY unethical work practices, etc. Read The Jungle to understand more. But now it is about questioning if a hiring freeze or work reduction during harsh economic situations (not brought on by mgmt as it is continuously and simplisticly stated) or making mgmt decisions via judicial orders/injunctions that end up harming business...and union members at the same time. If I saw real pitches being made by AFA...ones that make business sense and show that they won't just be going against the grain on every decision faced by the company and the industry, I would be less vocal. But the campaign of lies and mis-representations is atrocious and doesn't give me much hope for the DL culture...which has been its most valuable asset for decades. It will soon become a legacy culture with people's pride no longer laying in their work and the company but rather in the size of their paycheck and the number of 'victories' against mgmt. We're ALL in this industry together during the most challenging environment it's ever faced. To have ignorance towards true economic drivers and believe every tale spun by recruiters will not help you and it won't help the industry. I don't think you should vote 'no'...that's not what i'm trying to do. But just like the people with subprime mortgages are now learning...if you believe everything told to you and don't ask the right questions that will TRULY affect your future, you're going to find yourself in a situation that is not good. But then again...AFA would blame that on mgmt, too.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Luke-

Seems that truth has struck a nerve? Blaming mgmt for the economy and then saying that they should "simply raise fares" is trying to run mgmt and shows ignorance to how economics work. Blaming mgmt across the board for inflated capacity yet for every flight that UA, AA, DL, NW, etc pulls down, FL, WN, and B6 are back-filling with 2 is also an ignorant position. But all of these torts from the unions are ok? You stance is 'stay out of my business'...well what business do you have telling mgmt what they should be doing? Again...one thing we are in complete agreement on is exec pay but as others have shown here...people don't seem to grasp stock options, etc. Now...if the stance continues to be "stay out of my business" then I think you should have zero input into wages, work rules, or any other mgmt decisions. Do I really believe that employees should be completely voiceless? Hell no. But have unions become bastardized forms of what their original purpose was? Definitely. What unions used to protect now boil down to human/civil rights and are even more protected. But to use the union to drive mgmt decisions and limit how a business can respond to economic situations (see what AQ pilots are doing now to try to completely shut down the airline's remaining business...the cargo division) doesn't make sense if you want everybody else to stay out of your business.

And no...I missed that press release. Sounds fairly sensational and with an agenda, though. I say...'who cares'? Should I start a petition to have Anderson guarantee that he will NOT be neutral? What a waste of time? This is just the same idiotic politicing done in our gov't that keeps anything from getting done and is meant to try to spin the perception towards people thinking that Anderson will NOT be neutral. It's propaganda. Same as saying that 75% of international FAs will be laid off. Same as lieing about the exec makeup and saying that NW will be running the show. No...Danny has not answered my questions elsewhere b/c they are not scripted from the AFA faqs. I asked about finances (same question he asks of the companies). I asked why misleading statements have been made to try to drum up fear. The questions I have asked I would hope you would be concerned about but perhaps the marvelous tale spun by the AFA is too strong for you to get past and think about holding them to the same standards as mgmt.

Please don't get me wrong. I'm all FOR unions and what they are supposed to stand for...fighting against TRULY hazardous working conditions, TRULY unethical treatment of employees, TRULY unethical work practices, etc. Read The Jungle to understand more. But now it is about questioning if a hiring freeze or work reduction during harsh economic situations (not brought on by mgmt as it is continuously and simplisticly stated) or making mgmt decisions via judicial orders/injunctions that end up harming business...and union members at the same time. If I saw real pitches being made by AFA...ones that make business sense and show that they won't just be going against the grain on every decision faced by the company and the industry, I would be less vocal. But the campaign of lies and mis-representations is atrocious and doesn't give me much hope for the DL culture...which has been its most valuable asset for decades. It will soon become a legacy culture with people's pride no longer laying in their work and the company but rather in the size of their paycheck and the number of 'victories' against mgmt. We're ALL in this industry together during the most challenging environment it's ever faced. To have ignorance towards true economic drivers and believe every tale spun by recruiters will not help you and it won't help the industry. I don't think you should vote 'no'...that's not what i'm trying to do. But just like the people with subprime mortgages are now learning...if you believe everything told to you and don't ask the right questions that will TRULY affect your future, you're going to find yourself in a situation that is not good. But then again...AFA would blame that on mgmt, too.

WHAT was that rant? The very FIRST sentence baffles me. What union is blaming airline management for the economy? And Anderson himself said we have to raise fares. What union is blaming mgt. for overcapacity. Mgt themselves say there is too much capacity.
Just the first part of your post makes absolutely NO sense. I do not have time to waste on defensive, know-it-alls who wear unions-are-out-to-control-the-world tin foil hats. I'm willing to have an intelligent discussion but I don't understand this thing at all.
And whether you like it or not, if this merger goes through, Delta FAs WILL BE unionized, most likely AFA. It's in the statistics. If this vote fails, there will automatically be another vote (because NW makes up at least 35% of the total FA population). You combine their vote with 40% of DL FAs and there WILL be AFA.
All of your blustering will not change it. But again, you don't work in this dept, so it won't even directly affect you. Sheesh.........You're obviously the one whose nerve has been hit. (take a look at the length of your post...it's like a scroll!)

 

[Yankeestu]

WHAT was that rant? The very FIRST sentence baffles me. What union is blaming airline management for the economy? And Anderson himself said we have to raise fares. What union is blaming mgt. for overcapacity. Mgt themselves say there is too much capacity.
Just the first part of your post makes absolutely NO sense. I do not have time to waste on defensive, know-it-alls who wear unions-are-out-to-control-the-world tin foil hats. I'm willing to have an intelligent discussion but I don't understand this thing at all.
And whether you like it or not, if this merger goes through, Delta FAs WILL BE unionized, most likely AFA. It's in the statistics. If this vote fails, there will automatically be another vote (because NW makes up at least 35% of the total FA population). You combine their vote with 40% of DL FAs and there WILL be AFA.
All of your blustering will not change it. But again, you don't work in this dept, so it won't even directly affect you. Sheesh.........You're obviously the one whose nerve has been hit. (take a look at the length of your post...it's like a scroll!)

Luke,

The only concern I have is that with the early outs NW is offering their FA's, there wont be another vote. Unlike our offerings, theirs are going to be taken because they are far more lucrative (health care). Without 35% of NW representing our work force there will be no second vote. If the margin is slim, DAL will find a huge need to hire (my opinion).
Now is the time to vote 'cause this may be our only chance. That is why DAL is telling our peers...."No need to vote now, wait and see because you will have a second chance."

Visions of snowballs and hell keep running through my mind.

I get to the point at times where I look at these boards and see such a select few actually weighing in. Does my pro-labor stance reach anyone other than a couple of people that just feel like arguing with anonymity. I am fighting for my peers and when they would rather risk it all to trust management, I just scratch my head. If our efforts fail and I am wrong about the dire possibilities I will be grateful but if the unionization efforts fail and I was correct about the what if's, I will be angry towards those who choose to forego protections and trust blindly.