WSJ: Delta, TPG Assessing Bids for American Airlines

[BoeingBoy]

That I can't comment on - don't know enough about the AA pilot's seniority list to even sound intelligent. It's been said over on the US forum that the junior AA captain was hired in 1992. If so 85-90% of the East US pilots would be "senior" to that so half of those from the last recall in 2007 would be senior enough to hold captain at AA and those never furloughed would be senior enough to be in the top half of AA's captain ranks. I've no idea how that would fit in with the ex-TWA pilots but a DOH integration would put a lot of US A320/737 pilots immediately in the left seat of a widebody.

Of course, when US merged with the Trump Shuttle - a pretty senior group that traced their seniority back to EA - the East pilots didn't want any part of DOH. They preferred to integrate by pay rates, which would have put the Shuttle captains among the US F/O's in the bottom half of the US list...

Jim

 

[FWAAA]

If AA and US combine, it would be truly hilarious if the APA selected arbitration to settle the integration with the US pilots and Nicolau was chosen for the arbitration. I assume he would use the APA list and his prior arbitration decision at US - the "Nic" list. That would certainly show what a monumental waste of time the USAPA-nonsense has been.

 

[bigjets]

From what I see with the pilots, it's a longing for something that will "correct" their lagging careers. Starting with the big furlough in 1992 until today (two decades) US (now called East) has languished. Those furloughed in 1992 that wanted to come back were able to in 1997-1998 and there was some hiring, but 911 reversed that and those hired in 1988 and later were back on the street. Now, after two decades, recalls have occurred together with some hiring and the first retirements under the new retirement age will start in December. So the East pilots are back to where they were in 1992 just prior to that furlough - except 20 years have gone by.

In the US/HP merger, the East pilots saw West 6-7 year captains while it took nearly 17 years to even have a job on the East - an opportunity via DOH, for junior and furloughed East pilots to get to their "rightful place" of being captains. Now, 6+ years later the court battles are still going on and nothing has changed. So they look at AA and again see an opportunity, via DOH, to attain their "rightful place" and make up for the lost 20 years.

Jim

This is a bit off topic, but why would a capt at america west have to lose his position/job to a us air pilot? I see the America west pilot worked at a successful airline that acquired a less successful airline. The usair pilots decided to stay at an airline that went through bk twice, why should the pilots at America west be replaced by usair pilots?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Seniority is like water - it eventually seeks it's own level through bidding/displacement. A former HP pilot that's a fairly senior captain gets a new seniority number that allows him to only hold F/O while a former furloughed East pilot get a new seniority number that allows him to hold captain. Through bidding/displacement each of those pilots will gravitate to what their new seniority number can hold - the HP pilot to F/O and the East pilot to Captain.

Jim

 

[bigjets]

Seniority is like water - it eventually seeks it's own level through bidding/displacement. A former HP pilot that's a fairly senior captain gets a new seniority number that allows him to only hold F/O while a former furloughed East pilot get a new seniority number that allows him to hold captain. Through bidding/displacement each of those pilots will gravitate to what their new seniority number can hold - the HP pilot to F/O and the East pilot to Captain.

Jim

I can see a dove tailing for airlines that merged, but not for an airline that was acquired by another, if that was the case there should not have been any TWA employees laid off. They were a very seniority work force, and the majority of the 777 capt should be xtwa pilots by your reasoning.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Which is why arbitrators say that fairness depends on the circumstances of each merger - there is no single method of integrating work groups that is fair across the industry. Also, as I've said in the past, seniority is not as important as longevity for anyone but pilots. For pilots, it determines pay, retirement, vacation, schedules, etc. Seniority is much more important than longevity for pilots.

At the time of the US/HP merger, the bottom furloughed pilot had almost 17 years of longevity (1988 hire date for the 2005 merger) and looking around the industry saw people with the same longevity holding captain positions. So he saw "fair" as whatever method of integration would get him a captain slot where he "belonged" - DOH since HP pilots only had 22 years or less of longevity (HP started up in 1983). On the other side, the HP pilots wanted to be able to hold the job they brought to the merger - not improve their position but just be able to hold onto what they had. Thus protecting the top East pilots on the few widebodies that East had then slotting everyone else by seat/equipment since both sides flew the same equipment (other than the widebodies) was deemed fair by the arbitrator - effectively the HP pilot's position.

BTW, "merger" is the generic word for any time two airlines are put together to form one. It means nothing about how the transaction came about because in the end the owners of each of the two carriers - the stockholders or the creditors in the case of one being in bankruptcy vote to approve the merger or not.

Jim