'wrong' Amendment Back In The News

[AAmech]

There actually were MD80's for a short time flying DAL-AUS when AA won the state gov contract for that route. After WN won it back AA reduced capacity to RJ's.

 

[KCFlyer]

JS your right on the money!!! Of course DFW still needs protection. Terminal B is grossly underused and now most of Terminal E is about to be abandoned! And don't forget DFW will open a NEW terminal next year which will be underused as well! Why in the world would we need DAL opened up NOW? Theres PLENTY of room at the Inn!
This is not Chicago or Houston. The comparisons are rediculous. Both of those cities are much larger and have airports which are either full or bursting at the seams (ORD). The Chicago market is so much bigger they're considering building a THIRD airport to relive the other two!

[post="228845"][/post]​

If I were Southwest then, I would immediately move all operations to DFW....with the stipulation that all AA flights MUST use the East Side runways and Southwest MUST use the west side runways. I recall the days when DFW wasn't nearly as busy as it is today....AA jets would routinely taxi over from the east side of the airport to the west side of the airport to gum up the works of the biggest carrier on the west side of the field at the time - Braniff International.

But....be careful what you wish for...I have an idea that the very LAST tenent AA wants to see at DFW is LUV. The next to the last one they would want to see set up increased operations is Airtran, and the third from the bottom would be JetBlue. In other words....AA would rather see those terminals ROT than to become occupied by any airline that would bring any sort of low fare competition.

 

[jimntx]

If I were Southwest then, I would immediately move all operations to DFW....with the stipulation that all AA flights MUST use the East Side runways and Southwest MUST use the west side runways. I recall the days when DFW wasn't nearly as busy as it is today....AA jets would routinely taxi over from the east side of the airport to the west side of the airport to gum up the works of the biggest carrier on the west side of the field at the time - Braniff International.

[post="228866"][/post]​

Silly me. And all this time I thought that a/c on the ground had to use whatever runway and/or taxiway that ATC and ground control told them to use. Who knew that pilots could just go anywhere they wanted anytime they wanted. I guess they can also use whatever gate they want. I'm going to let the next pilot who taxies all the way past C to get to an A gate a piece of my mind. :angry:

 

[JS]

If I were Southwest then, I would immediately move all operations to DFW....with the stipulation that all AA flights MUST use the East Side runways and Southwest MUST use the west side runways. I recall the days when DFW wasn't nearly as busy as it is today....AA jets would routinely taxi over from the east side of the airport to the west side of the airport to gum up the works of the biggest carrier on the west side of the field at the time - Braniff International.

But....be careful what you wish for...I have an idea that the very LAST tenent AA wants to see at DFW is LUV. The next to the last one they would want to see set up increased operations is Airtran, and the third from the bottom would be JetBlue. In other words....AA would rather see those terminals ROT than to become occupied by any airline that would bring any sort of low fare competition.

[post="228866"][/post]​

I'm sure AA would be happy to agree. After all, terminals A, C and E are on the east side, so for every WN flight that has to taxi to the other side of the airport, AA gets to use the closest side of the airport for two flights.

Terminal B has a bunch of Eagle flights, but those are actually MQ, not AA, so they can continue to use the west runways under normal conditions.

Be careful what you wish for!

 

[KCFlyer]

I'm sure AA would be happy to agree. After all, terminals A, C and E are on the east side, so for every WN flight that has to taxi to the other side of the airport, AA gets to use the closest side of the airport for two flights.

Terminal B has a bunch of Eagle flights, but those are actually MQ, not AA, so they can continue to use the west runways under normal conditions.

Be careful what you wish for!

[post="228894"][/post]​

Read up on your history and you will discover that years ago, Braniff had the west side and AA and Delta had the east side. Yet for some reason, AA was sending an awful lot of flights over to the west side. Dunno why. And...with terminal E being right on the south end of the field, I would be willing to bet that a SWA jet that had to taxi over to runway 18 would get there sooner than the typical AA jet could go from terminal A to runway 17.

 

[TechBoy]

JS your right on the money!!! Of course DFW still needs protection. Terminal B is grossly underused and now most of Terminal E is about to be abandoned! And don't forget DFW will open a NEW terminal next year which will be underused as well! Why in the world would we need DAL opened up NOW? Theres PLENTY of room at the Inn!
This is not Chicago or Houston. The comparisons are rediculous. Both of those cities are much larger and have airports which are either full or bursting at the seams (ORD). The Chicago market is so much bigger they're considering building a THIRD airport to relive the other two!

[post="228845"][/post]​

Houston is much larger than Dallas? I think you need to check your facts. They are roughly the same size in metro area population.

The protectionism by the AA folks here is amazing. Perhaps we should go back to regulation to ensure that there is no meaningful competition anywhere.

 

[AAmech]

Read up on your history and you will discover that years ago, Braniff had the west side and AA and Delta had the east side. Yet for some reason, AA was sending an awful lot of flights over to the west side. Dunno why. And...with terminal E being right on the south end of the field, I would be willing to bet that a SWA jet that had to taxi over to runway 18 would get there sooner than the typical AA jet could go from terminal A to runway 17.

[post="228930"][/post]​

As already stated, AA has little to no say in which runways or taxiways it uses. But the logical reason for flights having to taxi over to the west side is that the east side of DFW has THREE terminals and the west side has ONE. Years ago when DL wanted to expand DFW refused permission to them because of the overloading of the east side. They settled for the smaller "EasyStreet".

 

[KCFlyer]

As already stated, AA has little to no say in which runways or taxiways it uses. But the logical reason for flights having to taxi over to the west side is that the east side of DFW has THREE terminals and the west side has ONE. Years ago when DL wanted to expand DFW refused permission to them because of the overloading of the east side. They settled for the smaller "EasyStreet".

[post="228939"][/post]​

Back in the Braniff days however, it was AA and Delta on the east - Braniff and everybody else on the west....yet AA had about as many flights moving to the west side as they had on the east....until the day that there was a multicolored fleet of 727's parked on the west side ramp...then they were pretty much exclusively operating on the east side. Given the fact that I can walk faster than most AA jets taxi, I can see them creeping over to the west side, should SWA try to set up shop there.

 

[AAmech]

If I were Southwest then, I would immediately move all operations to DFW....with the stipulation that all AA flights MUST use the East Side runways and Southwest MUST use the west side runways. I recall the days when DFW wasn't nearly as busy as it is today....AA jets would routinely taxi over from the east side of the airport to the west side of the airport to gum up the works of the biggest carrier on the west side of the field at the time - Braniff International.

But....be careful what you wish for...I have an idea that the very LAST tenent AA wants to see at DFW is LUV. The next to the last one they would want to see set up increased operations is Airtran, and the third from the bottom would be JetBlue. In other words....AA would rather see those terminals ROT than to become occupied by any airline that would bring any sort of low fare competition.

[post="228866"][/post]​

I doesn't really think it matter to AA which airline comes in and sets up shop at DFW. But everyone knows there WILL BE a so called LCC at DFW. And AA will have to match its fares just like it does all over the country where it competes with LCC's everyday. Personally I think WN at DFW is the best senario for AA as their products contrast the most. Airtran would be the worst as their product is much more similar to AAs.
But the crippled AA is merely the strawman in this argument. It is WN which is terrified at the thought of another LCC coming into their backyard and setting up operations. This is the one and ONLY reason why for the first time WN has come out so strongly for a repeal of the WA!

 

[Bob Owens]

What is your point? New York has around five times as many people in the metro area. Mentioning SWF is about as useful as mentioning ACT or SPS in this discussion -- it's a dinky little airport 90 miles out in the country.

Why do you always have to end your posts with a labor rant? This topic has nothing to do with labor.

[post="228596"][/post]​

The point is that you seem to want to protect an airport. I thought that in our free market system it was survival of the fittest and let the market decide? At least thats what the workers are told(labor rant). If DFW should not exist then let it die. Why should the people of Dallas be inconvenienced to make bond holders rich?

SWF? I didnt bring that up. I dont even know what it is.

Labor rant? Well you have your agenda and I have mine. If you dont like it start your own site and ban me from it. By the way the topic isnt which airline uses which runway either. Its about the Wright amendment and whether or not it should be appealed right? So who cares who uses what runway at DFW.

 

[KCFlyer]

Personally I think WN at DFW is the best senario for AA as their products contrast the most.

[post="228947"][/post]​

Really? What do the 100 or so folks who sit past the FC section get that can illustrate that contrast a little better?

 

[Ch. 12]

It is fair because Southwest gets to use Love Field while AA cannot. In exchange for being allowed to use a more convenient airport with lower costs comes the restriction of destinations served.

Letting Southwest fly anywhere they want out of Love Field would be unfair to AA, and letting both WN and AA fly anywhere out of DAL would be unfair to DFW.

[post="228815"][/post]​

JS...you blatantly lie or are grossly misinformed. Whichever it is, you should know that WN has no priveleges at DAL that AA does not. The "agreement" restricted DAL for ALL carriers and ANY carrier can serve DAL. I'm not asking you to go back very far to see that AA has served DAL in recent history.

And what kind of argument is it to say that "letting Southwest fly anywhere...out of Love Field would be unfair to AA"?!?! That is exactly the point and you demonstrated right there the intention of the WA (not original, but current).

And protect DFW?? DFW is the 5th largest metro area in the US...ahead of MIA-FLL (no restrictions on alternate airports), DCA-IAD (practical restrictiions...meaning that the perimeter contains REAL markets...not BHM/MCI equivalents), HOU-IAH (no restrictions), DTW/DET (no restrictions), and BOS/MHT/PVD (no restrictions). DFW is even larger than SFO-OAK which...once again...has no restrictions.

The numbers speak volumes and the 5th largest metro area should be able to allow free competition among its two airports when #6, 7, 8, 9, 10... have free or reasonable competition.

Again...tell me a non-protectionist reason on why the WA exists? If the #5 metro area in the US cannot support free competition, we are in trouble. AA is benefiting greatly from regulated competition...but what is new?

 

[mga707]

Back in the Braniff days however, it was AA and Delta on the east - Braniff and everybody else on the west....

[post="228944"][/post]​

The terminal layout at DFW from start of operations in '74 until the start of deregulation in early '79 was as follows:
Terminal 2W: Braniff, along with one gate for Mexicana.
Terminal 2E: The three local service carriers, Frontier, Ozark, and Texas International, shared this terminal, with the latter having the majority of the gates
Terminal 3E: Almost solely American, except for one Eastern gate.
Terminal 4E: About two-thirds Delta, one-third Continental.
(There were a few small, intra-state commuters, too, such as Chaparral, Metro, and Rio, but they were a minor factor back in those pre-code sharing partner days)

With dereg, of course, new carriers started coming in (United, TWA, Northwest, and Republic were among the early ones), and were usually squeezed into either 2W or 4E. Room opened up in 4E soon after deregulation started as CO pulled out of DFW totally. They would not return until the merger with TI in '83. At the same time (early 80s), AA started to build up it's hub and began a slow but steady expansion into the underused 2E.

 

[JS]

The point is that you seem to want to protect an airport. I thought that in our free market system it was survival of the fittest and let the market decide? At least thats what the workers are told(labor rant). If DFW should not exist then let it die. Why should the people of Dallas be inconvenienced to make bond holders rich?

We do have a free market system, and that is why AA and WN can fly anywhere they want. AA can start flying 777's from DFW to GGG if they want, and WN can fly 737's from DAL to MSL if they want.

Airports themselves are not really "free markets" -- the aircraft operators that use them are, but not the facility itself. The interstate highway system is 100% government owned and run.

Why? Because large transportation systems are simply too large for the private market. For one thing, you need the power of eminent domain in order to obtain land (something that even Donald Trump doesn't have).

Free markets require that there be multiple suppliers, low barriers to entry and low barriers to exit. That does exist for the most part with airlines (the barriers are a little high but not at all insurmountable). However, it most certainly does not exist with airports. Airports are the interstate highway system of the skies, just like ATC.

SWF? I didnt bring that up. I dont even know what it is.

SWF = Newburgh, NY

Labor rant? Well you have your agenda and I have mine. If you dont like it start your own site and ban me from it. By the way the topic isnt which airline uses which runway either. Its about the Wright amendment and whether or not it should be appealed right? So who cares who uses what runway at DFW.

[post="228973"][/post]​

I don't have an agenda. I just wanted to stick to the topic at hand.

 

[JS]

Really? What do the 100 or so folks who sit past the FC section get that can illustrate that contrast a little better?

[post="228982"][/post]​

Southwest gives frequent flyers a free ticket with no limits on availability other than a few blackout dates, and a companion pass to ultra-frequent flyers, while AA has a large network that can take you to hundreds of destinations that Southwest cannot.