Work Ethics

[Garfield1966]

You’re kidding right? Do you actually believe that FA’s are any different from the rest of the people in this country? Half the people in this country do not vote for the President of the US. You can read poll after poll and study after study that show that a huge portion of the people have no idea what the major issues are. There are people out there (who you and I work with, or encounter on a regular basis) who do not know who the president is. Of the former flight attendants who work in scheduling, all of them have said that they knew so little about the contract until they came to crew skd. Do you really believe there were only 60 people out of the 20 plus thousand who did not believe in the strike? Have you ever tried to get 20,000 people to agree on anything? You think Nazi Germany happened because people thought it through and figured, “hey. Sounds like a good idea to me.� No, it happened because there was a charismatic leader telling the German people that he had the answer and he could save them. Then he led them down the path to hell. Look at members of cults. Granted, this is an extreme example but it is valid none the less. Whether or not a strike is right or not is not the issue. People listen to their peers, who listen to their peers and so on. You hear quite frequently about gang members who say they did what they did to be part of a group. If you don’t know a single person who simply half heartedly followed, then you need to get out more because that is a load of BS and you know it. I know 5 people and I’m not even a FA.

I took a communication course in college and one of the topics was advertising. Advertisers are the perfect mentality of pack mentality. Coke could not be sold on it’s merit, they had to put it in a bottle (with the form of a woman) to sell it. Who here (who was / is not on drugs) thinks the leisure suit ever looked good? Smoking and peer pressure? The ripped sweats in the 80 (flash dance), the list goes on and on, one person does it and everyone needs to follow. They do not know why. They just know if they don’t they will be left out. That’s what advertisers bank on. That’s what a majority of people buy into every day. One person leads and the rest follow like sheep.

I did not berate or belittle anyone. I said I would not join a union, or any organization that inhibited me from exercising my free will. If they were striking for what they believed in good for them. I am angry at they way the FA’s who did not strike were and are treated to this day. Union wants to fine them (assuming the contract allows that) fine, but to intimidate and threaten them? To prevent them from doing their job effectively and safely? That is unconscionable. That is why I will never join a union.

 

[FA Mikey]

I am angry at they way the FA’s who did not strike were and are treated to this day. Union wants to fine them (assuming the contract allows that) fine, but to intimidate and threaten them? To prevent them from doing their job effectively and safely? That is unconscionable. That is why I will never join a union.

Please I work in what is likely to be the toughest base for a scab. There is NO intimations or threats out there. If there were management would be involved. They are not because, like the boy who cried wolf so did the scabs. Time and time again until no one wants to hear it anymore. I am sure a few who live in the past would have us believe. They have a horrible work environment reality is not so. I work with them time and time again. Truth is there just not invited to the layover events. If you choose to stand alone then do so, but have the balls to do it and not whine about it. You cant have it both ways. Try to stab us in the back yet still try to be a friend, sorry No thanks.

 

[TWAnr]

It has been almost ten years. Perhaps it is time to let bygones be?

There are bigger challenges out there, now, for all of us.

Getting back to the topic at hand, it the crew schedulers were more mindful and respective of the flight attendants personal and family lives needs and accommodated them by showing some concern and flexibility, more flight attendants would be willing to accept reassignments every now and then (as opposed to it being the new work routine).

Just my 2¢.

 

[FA Mikey]

Absolut inflexibility! Got a whole crew on short call out to go to GRU from Miami, on morning of the 23rd. We flew to JFK evening of the 24th and arrived on the 25th. Called and ask to waive legalities and fly home on the first flight. No way, no how. They said they might need us for another flight. Now having flown for 10 hours I am not good to them for 20 more hours, or 2 am on the 26th. Laying over in Manhattan, a Miami crew or 9 for 24 hours to DH home on the 26th. Brilliant. Keeping a crew laying over in a crew base city that has a reserve pool active and available was a total waste of money and taught me and the rest of the crew to be as inflexible as they are.

This was a couple years ago before the over stretching massive furloughs. Good will would be to let us go home. Have some time with our friends and family. We were good working over Christmas and not calling in sick. Got home early would have made us available in our own city where crew planning, planned for our need. Did I also for get to mention that the whole crew was only good for 1 more day? Only good for basically two legs home on the 26th if they had used us which they didn't.

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I admire some of the things you stand for. I do not admire how yall treated the flight attendants that crossed the picket lines to feed their families. Like alot of people say in here when they rant about sick time. Some single parents cant be gone from home that long. Well some single parents could not afford to stay on strike. And I feel for the way you were treated by the APFA.

I love this company and want it to succeed and want all the people out on lay offs to come back if they so desire. I want us toi get along. We do not have to like eachother but we do have to respect eachother. We have to respect our profession our passengers and our co workers in order to survive. If we keep fighting ourselves and promote and cheer the bad things that one can do we will never recover.

That is all written on emotion and probably makes no sense.

And one more thing. I had a really good friend that was a flight attendant for TWA for 16 years. Once she was furloughed she has refused to talk to me since I am NAATIVE. There are bad apples everywhere. I even went out of my way to travel to STL to teach her and some of her friends flight attendant entries and contract rules before the integration. And that is the thanks I got.

operations,

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I admire some of the things you stand for. I do not admire how yall treated the flight attendants that crossed the picket lines to feed their families. Like alot of people say in here when they rant about sick time. Some single parents cant be gone from home that long. Well some single parents could not afford to stay on strike. And I feel for the way you were treated by the APFA.

I love this company and want it to succeed and want all the people out on lay offs to come back if they so desire. I want us toi get along. We do not have to like eachother but we do have to respect eachother. We have to respect our profession our passengers and our co workers in order to survive. If we keep fighting ourselves and promote and cheer the bad things that one can do we will never recover.

That is all written on emotion and probably makes no sense.

And one more thing. I had a really good friend that was a flight attendant for TWA for 16 years. Once she was furloughed she has refused to talk to me since I am NAATIVE. There are bad apples everywhere. I even went out of my way to travel to STL to teach her and some of her friends flight attendant entries and contract rules before the integration. And that is the thanks I got.

operations,
You've got the balls to preach to us here about "RESPECT" ????

THis friggin' SHI* HOLE company has a loooong and glorious history of having shown massive DISRESPECT to it's Unionized employees . Don't take my word for it, take the WALL STREET JOURNAL's word.

This latest debacle with CARTY($$$$) was a perfect example, and make NO mistake, if the "war cry", from the rank and file, was'nt as great as it was, the (AS* HOLE) management of this friggin' company, would'nt have fired ol' Don.

The old saying, "you lead by example", comes from the meaning that it starts with "THE LEADERSHIP"(of the company)

The good book say's, "that you reap what you sow", well guess what "operations",

WE ARE AN OUTSTANDING PRODUCT, OF OUR EVIRONMENT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NH/BB's

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

Ok MiAAmi, lets try this again.

Very few flights have been canceled over the last few months as a direct result of “crew shortage”. Most of the cancellations have been due to the unseasonable weather we have had as well as the outrageously high sick list we have had since Jul 1. It is very difficult to tell if we are understaffed and if so by how much when the sick list in inflated by roughly 50%. So boys and girls, until you stop abusing the sick policy I do not see that you have a leg to stand on. As I said before, for everyone of you who calls in sick, one of you will be reassigned. Yes the sick list will sky rock during the holidays and flights will be canceled. Some of you have been bumped from your holiday vacation and since you feel that you are entitled to off (I guess you missed the part in the hiring speech about being flexible and willing to work weekends, nights and holidays) you will call in sick. I guess we could just tell all the passengers that we just don’t fly on holidays and weekends huh?

The thing is no company bases their staffing on the peaks or the valleys. Staffing is based on the yearly average. We don’t have temp FA’s (hey, there’s a good idea). Any company who runs peak staffing is not one that I will buy stock in because they won’t be around for to long. Any employee who thinks peak staffing is a good idea, is an employee and not a owner for a reason. THEY ARE TO STPUPID. Even before all the lay offs occurred, the holiday staffing always went to crap. We had more FA’s on staff but just as big a percentage of you went sick because you either A. forgot the little hiring speech, B. did not think it applied to you because you are special or C. lied when you said “oh sure, no problem.”. So, go call in sick. Keep this in mind when you do. When you call in sick, your co worker WILL be reassigned. When you get reassigned, it’s because one of your co-workers called in sick. No I am not saying not to ever call in sick. If your sick, that’s what it is there for. I am referring to those who abuse the sick policy. Also, as you all seem to love reminding everyone. You’re the front line. Piss off a customer, we loose money. We loose money, that’s less of a raise you get when contracts come up for negotiation. Yea yea, the company is evil, management is corrupt and I hope AA dies a anguishing death. Have you looked at the job market lately? Not very pretty. You want to fight management? Go for it. I have learned along time ago not to pick fights I do not have a chance of willing. Find me a multi billion dollar corporation that is run by saints. South west is so great, wish I worked for them. Oh please, last I checked they are being picketed now as well. The economy sucks people. The airlines just got B!tch slapped in the kisser. Things have changed. Productivity is up and pay is down. Don’t like it? Well, drop a few tabs and fine a reality you do like or go to the Catholic church. Oops, can’t go there either for ethics. Bummer. Guess your out of luck.

Right now your work rules suck big time. Thing is, people always want to change stuff when it’s too damn late. The time to save money is when you don’t need it. When you’re in debt up to your eye balls, it’s too damn late. That’s when someone comes in with a chain saw instead of a paring knife and you end up getting your butts handed to you.

The innocent and the poor always hold up the big guys. We are the have nots. Some of us will escape, most will not. No it’s not right but you’ll get an ulcer fighting it. Airline work is not for everyone. It is changing. Either you change with it or get out. We don’t right the rules. The person with the money does, and guess what, we don’t have the money. If an employer can’t get enough people to work for them, then they will change just enough to get what they need. This is the US folks. Money is our god and those how do not worship that god, or at the very least understand that little nuance of Americana are going to be disappointed. NO AMERICAN DOES NOT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOUR HAPPYNESS. THEY NEVER WILL. NOT MANY COMPANIES DO. THE FEW THAT SAY THEY CARE ARE PROBABLY LIEING TO YOU. Hate to burst your bubble. BTW, while I’m at it, Santa Clause, tooth fairy, Easter bunny … all lies. Company is here to make more money off of your labor than you do. That’s the way it has to work. If it were the other way around, it would not work. Think about that for a second and get back to me.

American told me when I got hired that I would be making ‘x’ amount an hour for what they wanted me to do. I made the decision to do the job. I have since transferred numerous times and the same thing happened each time. The economy tanked and 9/11 happened. Knock knock .. Hi there Garfield, this is the company. I know we said we were going to pay you ‘x’ for a hour of work but things are really bad now so ‘x’ will be a little less, well ok, A LOT less than it was. I was making great money for what I was doing, now, I’m making OK money for what I am doing. And most of us are in the same boat. No one is paid what they think they are worth. But there are not many of us on the front line who are rocket scientists. That’s why we are where we are. I am paid fairly for what I do. Some folks on the bottom end of the pay scale are probably under paid but not many and not by much.

Bottom line. Either do your job or get the HE!! OUT and find something you like.

(Lets see, garfield, I think I've got this right), AA medical will be(very soon) urgeing us to get FLU shots.
I guess that means FLU SEASON IS UPON US !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(cough, cough)

NH/BB's

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

I just "consulted the OLD FARMERS ALMANAC. It says that the east coast, and midwest(ord), are in for a real rough winter.

Unable to "reassign" = no need to burn up sick time.

Hey mabey you guy's can force FA's to deadhead on AMTRAK, to a reassignment.
Amtrak (hardly) ever shuts down in bad weather.

NH/BB's

 

[NewHampshire Black Bears]

(OK, simple math question)
Garfield, and operations say"NO problem. When one EVIL fa calls in sick, we just reassign another EVIL f/A"
Question?
What happens if more Evil F/A's call in sick, than there are EVIL f/a's to be reassigned ?????????????????????
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boy, I can just practically SMELL the aroma of the TURKEY in the oven already !!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing like watching your "little one's" eye's lite up Christmas morning !!!!!!!!!

10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1," HAPPY NEW YEAR" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"God bless us, everyone"
(Tiny Tim)

NH/BB's

 

[TWAnr]

Absolut inflexibility!

I was alluding to something a lot more elementary than the company agreeing to waivers of contractual provisions. I was referring to reserve management and about the need to show some sensitivity to the needs of the flight attendants.

On the last couple of occasions which my wife was on reserve, prior to her furlough, the airport standby room was full of flight attendants ready and able to fly trips on short notice, yet line holders were extended, while those who were there to cover last minute shortages were left unutilized. That is not even taking into account the dozens who were on ready reserve, ready to report to the airport on a two-hour notice.

On other occasions, my wife begged to be assigned long trips during four to six days long reserve spreads, instead of sitting in a hotel room or at the crew lounge in St. Louis, thousands of miles away from home, only to be given nothing except for a turn on the very last day of her availability period (which, by the way, almost always came back after the last flight left STL for home). Every month, line holders were extended while those on availability, who did not pre plot, flew only one or two trips a month and the reserves flew well under the pay guarantee.

On the few occasions that she needed a slight change of the check in time for airport standby duty, her requests were denied, just because the planner or scheduler had the power to do so, for no rational reason (twelve hours or more before the scheduled reporting time).

Some of the posters here may claim that this is only anecdotal evidence which does not reflect the situation of the majority of the flight attendants. I beg to differ. We have personally experienced these numerous times; I am also familiar with similar encounters experienced by countless others.

Those who have been flying for years, and who could hold lines that fit their personal needs, bid accordingly. In addition, many pay traders good money to rearrange their schedules for whatever their needs are. By indiscriminately, randomly, callously and insensitively extending trips and by ignoring those who are willing and available to fly, crew scheduling made a mockery of the bidding and trading system.

It is that type of history that has created the attitude that the crew schedulers are now facing. They sawed the seed, now, they reap the harvest.

 

[MiAAmi]

Ok MiAAmi, lets try this again.

Very few flights have been canceled over the last few months as a direct result of “crew shortageâ€. Most of the cancellations have been due to the unseasonable weather we have had as well as the outrageously high sick list we have had since Jul 1. It is very difficult to tell if we are understaffed and if so by how much when the sick list in inflated by roughly 50%. So boys and girls, until you stop abusing the sick policy I do not see that you have a leg to stand on. As I said before, for everyone of you who calls in sick, one of you will be reassigned. Yes the sick list will sky rock during the holidays and flights will be canceled. Some of you have been bumped from your holiday vacation and since you feel that you are entitled to off (I guess you missed the part in the hiring speech about being flexible and willing to work weekends, nights and holidays) you will call in sick. I guess we could just tell all the passengers that we just don’t fly on holidays and weekends huh?

The thing is no company bases their staffing on the peaks or the valleys. Staffing is based on the yearly average. We don’t have temp FA’s (hey, there’s a good idea). Any company who runs peak staffing is not one that I will buy stock in because they won’t be around for to long. Any employee who thinks peak staffing is a good idea, is an employee and not a owner for a reason. THEY ARE TO STPUPID. Even before all the lay offs occurred, the holiday staffing always went to crap. We had more FA’s on staff but just as big a percentage of you went sick because you either A. forgot the little hiring speech, B. did not think it applied to you because you are special or C. lied when you said “oh sure, no problem.â€. So, go call in sick. Keep this in mind when you do. When you call in sick, your co worker WILL be reassigned. When you get reassigned, it’s because one of your co-workers called in sick. No I am not saying not to ever call in sick. If your sick, that’s what it is there for. I am referring to those who abuse the sick policy. Also, as you all seem to love reminding everyone. You’re the front line. Piss off a customer, we loose money. We loose money, that’s less of a raise you get when contracts come up for negotiation. Yea yea, the company is evil, management is corrupt and I hope AA dies a anguishing death. Have you looked at the job market lately? Not very pretty. You want to fight management? Go for it. I have learned along time ago not to pick fights I do not have a chance of willing. Find me a multi billion dollar corporation that is run by saints. South west is so great, wish I worked for them. Oh please, last I checked they are being picketed now as well. The economy sucks people. The airlines just got B!tch slapped in the kisser. Things have changed. Productivity is up and pay is down. Don’t like it? Well, drop a few tabs and fine a reality you do like or go to the Catholic church. Oops, can’t go there either for ethics. Bummer. Guess your out of luck.

Right now your work rules suck big time. Thing is, people always want to change stuff when it’s too damn late. The time to save money is when you don’t need it. When you’re in debt up to your eye balls, it’s too damn late. That’s when someone comes in with a chain saw instead of a paring knife and you end up getting your butts handed to you.

The innocent and the poor always hold up the big guys. We are the have nots. Some of us will escape, most will not. No it’s not right but you’ll get an ulcer fighting it. Airline work is not for everyone. It is changing. Either you change with it or get out. We don’t right the rules. The person with the money does, and guess what, we don’t have the money. If an employer can’t get enough people to work for them, then they will change just enough to get what they need. This is the US folks. Money is our god and those how do not worship that god, or at the very least understand that little nuance of Americana are going to be disappointed. NO AMERICAN DOES NOT GIVE A DAMN ABOUT YOUR HAPPYNESS. THEY NEVER WILL. NOT MANY COMPANIES DO. THE FEW THAT SAY THEY CARE ARE PROBABLY LIEING TO YOU. Hate to burst your bubble. BTW, while I’m at it, Santa Clause, tooth fairy, Easter bunny … all lies. Company is here to make more money off of your labor than you do. That’s the way it has to work. If it were the other way around, it would not work. Think about that for a second and get back to me.

American told me when I got hired that I would be making ‘x’ amount an hour for what they wanted me to do. I made the decision to do the job. I have since transferred numerous times and the same thing happened each time. The economy tanked and 9/11 happened. Knock knock .. Hi there Garfield, this is the company. I know we said we were going to pay you ‘x’ for a hour of work but things are really bad now so ‘x’ will be a little less, well ok, A LOT less than it was. I was making great money for what I was doing, now, I’m making OK money for what I am doing. And most of us are in the same boat. No one is paid what they think they are worth. But there are not many of us on the front line who are rocket scientists. That’s why we are where we are. I am paid fairly for what I do. Some folks on the bottom end of the pay scale are probably under paid but not many and not by much.

Bottom line. Either do your job or get the HE!! OUT and find something you like.

Ok .... I will give you that the sick list is high. However crew scheduling is not the best run department either. Does this situation make sence to you. My friend is a Purser who was on Reserve the last day of August. Her first trip of the month was a 3 day. Instead of giving her a turn on the last day of August they gave her a 2 day that bumped her off her 3 day the following day. Now they have to find another purser to fly a 3 day. I know what the policy is but when your short flight attendants (pursers even more) its hard to sympathize with you. And over Labor Day weekend you guys had Deadheading flight attendants on flights that were understaffed and the DH flight attendants were legal to work.

 

[AirLUVer]

MIAAMI - from what I have seen, if a flight had a DH on it and was short staffed one of the following was true:

1. The DH was not on the trip when they decided to short staff it
2. The DH FA was not equip qualified
3. The DH FA was not legal 30/7
4. Waived legalities and going home early
5. DH back to base on the sick list. (I know of about 10 or 11 incidents in July and October where the FA's were downlined RA'd and went sick mid trip).

The sick numbers have improved significantly over the last week and a half, and also with the draw down of the summer schedule there are finally some reserves in the tightly manned base.

 

[Garfield1966]

(OK, simple math question)
Garfield, and operations say"NO problem. When one EVIL fa calls in sick, we just reassign another EVIL f/A"
Question?
What happens if more Evil F/A's call in sick, than there are EVIL f/a's to be reassigned ?????????????????????
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Boy, I can just practically SMELL the aroma of the TURKEY in the oven already !!!!!!!!!!!

Nothing like watching your "little one's" eye's lite up Christmas morning !!!!!!!!!

10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1," HAPPY NEW YEAR" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"God bless us, everyone"
(Tiny Tim)

NH/BB's

You’re the problem not the solution. You are the poster child of sick abuse. Don’t like the way you have been treated, then find the door and close it on your way out.

Why someone would want to work in a place they are so miserable in is beyond me. Seems to be the epitome of stupidity to me.

And to answer you question when run out of moves we cancel flights. But you know that because I am sure you are not as stupid as you are bitter

 

[Garfield1966]

MiAAmi,

As far as the last day of the month is concerned. In a normal operating situation it would not make sense. But, when you are in a situation where you have no people left at base, and you are running out of moves. We worry about today now and we will find a move for the open sequence the next day. Today always takes precedence over tomorrow. No other way to do it.

No it is not a efficient dept. Not sure how to run it better. If you have some ideas, we would be more than happy to listen. And before you say it, yes the reduced rest sucks but we have no control over that. Talk to congress and to the FAA.

BTW. I did not meant to jump down your throat. Sorry if it sounded like I did. I have friends who are FA’s. I hear their perspective and I see my perspective. I have a decent grasp of both sides.

I have to run. My fiancée is home for the weekend and she wants some quality time.

 

[MADAMT]

operaations

You make me laugh, this company has miss spent every ounce of good will that the employees gave it. They used this past situation to completely demoralize the employees, yes we all knew we aere going to take a pay cut, but AA went far beyond. They reduced this to nothing more than corporate greed, the work rule changes across the board will send reverberations for years to come.

When you drop a person to their knees you had better expect them to not respond with much enthausiam in performing their jobs.

I have been at the company for over 17 yrs and I love what I do, but will I extend myself like my mindless idiot simply for the greater good. Get over your holier than thou attitude.