Why the DOJ Wants to Clip Delta's Wings

[WorldTraveler]

DL is still the #1 network airline in Florida and every major city except for MIA.

DL is also the largest airline in each of those former hubs.

Maintaining market position doesn't require carrying thousands of connecting passengers thru those airports.

Notably, WN has removed hundreds of seats per day from ATL but is refocusing their network on the local passengers.

 

[700UW]

Are you sure about that?
 
According to MCO's own traffic data WN has carried more passengers in Sept than DL.
 
WN 397,388 passengers for 9/13
 
DL 363,039 passengers for 9/13.
 
And from January till now, WN has carried more passengers than DL.
 
WN: 6,635,833 passengers.
 
DL: 5,257,481 passengers.
 
So dont let the facts get in your way.
 
http://www.orlandoairports.net/statistics/

 

[AdAstraPerAspera]

I really don't see how WN can argue that they deserve most of the DCA slots when they already practically OWN BWI.

 

[Kev3188]

DL is still the #1 network airline in Florida and every major city except for MIA.

 
 
That's some nice wiggle room you've carved out.

How 'bout if we swap "network" for "major?" What happens then?

 

[WorldTraveler]

That's some nice wiggle room you've carved out.

How 'bout if we swap "network" for "major?" What happens then?

Network carriers have different strategies and attract different clients than low fare carriers, including strongly compete in markets even where low fare carriers dominate.

Why doesn't UA and AA serve MDW? OAK? .

 

[Kev3188]

Totally get all of that. It's not what I asked. 
 
Are 700's stats regarding traffic at MCO correct, or not?

 

[700UW]

Lets see this now, TPA traffic results year to date:
 
WN: 3,849,209 passengers for a 27.35% market share YTD.
 
DL: 2,384,951 passengers for a market share of 16.95% market share YTD.
 
Looks like WN is #1 in market share and passengers in TPA too!
 
Strike two WT.
 
http://www.tampaairport.com/about/facts/

 

[700UW]

And here is strike 3!
 
FLL statistics:
 
JetBlue: 4,405,708 Passengers, Market Share 18.7%
 
Spirit Passengers 4,268,516 Market Share 18.1%
 
Southwest Passengers: 3,171,173 Market Share 13.4%
 
Delta Passengers 2,954,884 Market Share 12.5%
 
This is YTD #s.
 
So your are wrong again WT.
 
http://www.broward.org/Airport/About/Pages/Statistics.aspx

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, it means that you don't understand the concept of network carrier.


I wrote it there for a reason even if Kev wants to try to extract it.

And I asked why DL serves some airports in major metro areas that AA and UA don't serve. You two apparently aren't able to figure out why.

Hmmm.


Hint: it's the exact same reason why DL intends to be present at DAL with a healthy schedule to its hubs and why DL flies mainline aircraft to ATL and others don't.

 

[700UW]

WN is a major airline and a network carrier, just because they don't call themselves a "hub and spoke" carrier they are.

You cant admit your wrong.

 

[Kev3188]

I wrote it there for a reason even if Kev wants to try to extract it.

...And that reason is so that you could smugly fall back on it when someone inevitably stopped by with stats showing WN carried more passengers in those Florida cities.

Let's get real; WN is not the plucky little upstart it once was. In fact, I'd say that's part of what you've been arguing w/r/t DAL. So let's not fall back to indemnifiers just because it's convenient.

I asked about using the "major" designation, since it much more accurately reflects WN's operation.

That said, the question stands; when we swap out "network," and insert "major," how does the Floridian landscape look?

For purposes of this discussion, I would include the following as "major cities":

MCO
TPA
FLL
JAX
RSW

 

[WorldTraveler]

no, WN is not considered a network carrier.

There are specific terms that are used and you clearly do not understand them.

Network carriers are also called legacy carriers but refers to those interstate carriers that existed before deregulation and also maintain well-defined hub and spoke systems.

Here is just one citation to the classifications that are used in the industry.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2011/02/gap-between-low-cost-and-netwo.html/

As value carriers, it included AirTran Airways, Allegiant Travel, Frontier Airlines, JetBlue Airways, Southwest Airlines, Spirit Airliens, Virgin America. As network carriers, it included Alaska Airlines, American Airlines, Continental Airlines, Delta Air Lines, Hawaiian Airlines, Northwest Airlines, United Airlines and US Airways.

Not surprisingly, the US government uses the same terminology.

http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/press_releases/2012/bts011_12/html/bts011_12.html

so who is wrong?
 

...And that reason is so that you could smugly fall back on it when someone inevitably stopped by with stats showing WN carried more passengers in those Florida cities.

That said, the question stands; when we swap out "network," and insert "major," how does the Floridian landscape look?

For purposes of this discussion, I would include the following as "major cities":

MCO
TPA
FLL
JAX
RSW

you just threw MIA overboard?

 

[Kev3188]

Yes, I understand all of that.

Again, if we swap out "network" and instead use "major," what does the Floridian landscape look like?

RE: MIA. I didn't "throw it overboard." You'd already excluded it from the discussion, which was fine given AA's dominance there. Feel free to throw it back in if you want to.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I am insulting no one. (oops I see you edited out your comment about me insulting you.)

You two are trying to suddenly become experts on a topic in which you are incorrectly using terminology.

It's really simple.

There is a difference between network airlines and low fare carriers. And there is a separate definition for major airlines that happens to include all of the network airlines but does not include all of the low cost airlines.

The DOT also uses the category regional airlines.

I get your drift with MIA and that is fine either way.

DL IS the largest network carrier in all of the major cities of Florida except for MIA where AA is the largest while WN is the largest low fare carrier in most Florida cities and in some cases is also the largest carrier as well.

Now, would you two like to go back and explain to us why DL has taken the network strategy of positioning itself as the largest network carrier and sometimes serves markets that AA and UA choose not to serve?

The reason why DL is the largest network carrier in nearly all Florida cities outside of MIA will give you insight as to why DL did not feel the need to chase WN and B6 to be the largest carrier in every market and why DL is the largest network carrier in more domestic markets than UA or AA are today and why the notion that the combined AA/US will be larger than DL will likely prove not to be the case.

Hint... DL usually loads its summer domestic schedule beginning after the first of the year.

 

[Kev3188]

You two are trying to suddenly become experts on a topic in which you are incorrectly using terminology

It's really simple.

...Or just noting your using of qualifying terms. Either or.

There is a difference between network airlines and low fare carriers. And there is a separate definition for major airlines that happens to include all of the network airlines but does not include all of the low cost airlines.

The DOT also uses the category regional airlines.

They also use... Major. WN and DL (business & network models aside) are in the latter category, are they not?

I'm not asking about business plans, chasing junk yield across the Everglades, or for more condescension from you.

I'm simply asking if 700's citations regarding passengers carried is correct.