Why The 407 Is The Superior Aircraft

[jetbox]

Sorry Sissypuss, that was a bit harsh on my part! :down:
You're entitled to your opinions like the rest of us!!

Arctic Front, your opinion will change in a big way if you get a chance to spend a fair amount of time on Astars, especially if you spend any time wrenching on a 407!!

In terms of performance, it's a matter of opinion. When it comes to maintenance, the 407 is a friggin nightmare on its own, let alone compared to the Astar.

As far as why Eurocopter is kicking Bell's ass in market share, well this also is up to much debate, but from what I've seen, the majority of customer dictate what kind of A/C they want to use and that my friends is by far the Astars.

 

[MagSeal]

Apparently Eurocopters market share worldwide is somewhere around 45% for civilian and closer to 60% for military. (It's open for corrections if anyone else has something in writing.)
The US seems to be a major hotbed right now for Eurocopters product, many, many law enforcement agencies, EMS, ENG and tour operators (not to mention private owners) are gobbling them up. They seem to fit the role they are in quite well.
And if price is the only reason....the others better stay competitive or they'll fall further behind.

 

[amodao]

The fuel injected high performance R44 Raven is the all around best machine, or maybe its the C18 powered 500C that should get top honors, either way any aircraft that generates revenue and keeps my fridge full is one that I adore.

 

[arctic_front]

my reasons for being pro-Bell is based on in-experience and ignorance for the most part....but I have been totally confused too many times by the manuals, parts and service from eurocopter. I have also heard from a few that the only reason to ever own a eurocopter is because the customer likes them....and we all know they really don't know much. my company owns a B, a BA and a B2....our parts guy can't keep any kind of common stock of any parts for any of them, so it seems...what gives?

 

[MagSeal]

I'll relate to you with the common stock problem. But I think somebody hoardes the stuff. Metric hardware is like gold I guess.
But, in responce to your manuals, the newer stuff, the 120's and the 130's are much more user friendly. And the older manuals, I too had many problems reading them, and in a nutshell, you ended up using them as little as possible out in the field. And frankly, I think it showed in the quality of work, and then that eventually shows up as a maintenance plagued aircraft.
Now that I am using them daily, they make much more sense and I can leaf through a Eurocopter manual with the ease I was used to with Bell manuals.
I simply suggest if you don't understand them well, use them more often, it'll help.

 

[407 Driver]

The biggest reasons that our 3 - B2's were sold from the fleet were..

-NO parts support.
-Performance not up to the task.

Grounding an aircraft for 6 weeks in the summer awaiting parts was completely unacceptable, Plus they could not do the job required by our Ski customer.

 

[matador]

To me there is not much to argue about. Since I started flying more than 25 years ago, I've allways thought that the helo I was flying at the moment was the best one (maybe a protective positive attitud).
Nowadays it's not possible in my opinion to turn down any design in helicopters 'couse all of them are quite good with some punctual differences that can get obviated for almost any kind of job. If you are flying a certain model you'll find a way to do the job just as well as another guy with a different model (generally speaking), so my point is that the 407 is probably a great machine and in some particular areas better fitted than the B3, but the opposite it's also true.
I just posted to say that some of the arguments Sysiphus was usind weren't at all correct, for instance power, engine response, start procedures, THROTTLE IN COLLECTIVE (That one is not arguable, B3 has it on it actually !!!).
I'm sure anybody who would be flying mainly the B3 would be more than happy to do so, just like guys flying the 407.
Take the best out of your helicopter and enjoy the flying.
Buen vuelo

 

[leadingedge]

Sisyphus

Good post! you have brought to light some of the absolutely true facts concerning the AS350 models. You did leave out the matter concerning the cheap plastic bathroom fan that can be easily shorted out with a little goober. What about the hydraulic drive belt, that resembles a mini dremmel beltsander refill?! Well , you gota give it to AS ! Not only was the first 350 incapable in staying in one piece on landing due in many cases of entering into ground resonance (without the installation of skid dampers), that they may also have inadvertently developed a helicopter that can do a loop all by its self!!

Thanks for the photo Magseal of the demonstrated procedure for hydraulics failure recovery!!

The throttle on the floor?, damm.. I'm surprised they didn't install it on the cabin roof?, and I will agree! is just plain old wrong!, its kinda like having the toilet flusher installed on the back of the toilet tank!

I liked your remarks about the fuel tank, don't you mean "PILOT INDUCED FUEL SLOSHING"? - does anybody know if there are baffles in the tank to prevent such occurrences or would that put the whole thing out of balance? Causing a potential mid air involuntary disintegration.????????? The Lama and Gazelle are nice AC and different story. What happened ? I don't know?


FLY SMART FLY BELL!

 

[MagSeal]

Ah Leading edge, Sisyphus et al....

this is equal to continuing to blame Ford for the rear fuel tank in the Pinto's. It's all old news. Times have changed, haven't either of you seen anything new from the product line yet? We could just as easily look back into the past, pull out all of Bell's, Robinsons, Sikorsky's etc, failures in the early years. It's not just the french products that have had poor ideas. They all have.
I do like the comment about involuntary disintergration of an A-star simply because the fuel sloshes a bit. Exactly how much sloshing do you think it'll take to destroy the aircraft?

 

[407 Driver]

I see a few new prospects to join my " I SURVIVED FLYING 350'S" self help group.
Welcome aboard Sisyphus and Leading edge. B)



MAG etal, we'll have to call another meeting of the "I survived CHW" group soon.

PPrune is talking of CHC beginning worldwide wage cuts, Hmmm, is Fred Nelson back?
Naaaa...he's still selling USED CARS in PG ! :blink:

 

[T-rex]

Mag..."tag me,tag me!!!! I am in!!!!"


So, I just love these debates, nice to see some new players, nice to see some old ones!

You ask why 407's aren't towing Birds? Cause they can't!!! We had one of the first 407's in Canada but sold it later that year, it was a disaster! This was the Mark 1 version mind you. It had plenty o' problems. Towing a Bird with this A/C was dangerous and a joke! The ol Astar keeps on ticking and performs the job better than the rest!

My sources tell me there will be an aftermarket P&W in an Astar very soon! Yeah!

I still enjoy seeing the 407 around, nice airplane, but who likes to sit backwards, as far as I am concerned it's still a Longdog on steroids!

And once again, keep the 407 and B3 Astar in the same debate, these are the two models that go head to head. If we want a debate on the Astar D,B,B1,B2, and super D vs Longranger L,LR,L1,L3,and L4 bring it on! This would be a whole new bashing session for all the bored heli pilots and engineers right now.

PS - Going to be an extremely busy winter out there, Play safe everyone!

Anyhoo, nice to see and hear from ya all lately!

 

[snowedin]

not wanting to enter the debate 407 vs 350, but curious to know the difference in performance between L3 and L4...while i have not flown L4 i understand it is quite the jump...can anyone comment who has flown both??

 

[JBC]

There is no comparison, the L4 will perform exactly how a Longranger shud with much more noticeable lift compared to a L3. There's no more speed but load and go, "as per the W & B ", very reliable for those long bushcamp jobs, send her out and you won't see her for 100 hrs.

 

[Pitch Link]

Goodmorning,

Just got the news that a fairly large Heli Ski operator will be trading in the AStars for a strictly 407 fleet in the next year or two. Could this be a Bell comeback. The snowball has to start somewhere. I still love my Astar though.

Cheers

 

[bandaid]

Where ya been 407. I don't visit here as often as I used to. A lot of unfriendlies trolling about.