Why Don't The Airlines Just Raise Fares?

[Trip Confirmed]

A heads up on what's happening with LCCs and alternate airports.

Leisure travelers are being offered airport B on LCCs. MUCH lower fare. You and your family will have to rent a car and maybe drive an hour or two to your destination.

Stinker, right? NO!

You can keep the car on a weekly rate. Bottom line, you save lots of money on airfares and your bottom line,and lose a few hours driving time in that week's vacation.

Grandpa (or the Disney Shuttle)doesn't have to come pick you up at the original airport,or take you back, and you have a car of your OWN for the entire time!

A freedom you would not have had if you flew the legacy carrier into airport A. Even when it's a wash, which is seldom, most choose airport B and the "Free car freedom " option for the week.

Same thing is happening the with corporate travelers,bigtime.

It's becoming VERY common for companies to approve limos, especially when there are 2 or more travelers (which is very frequent).

Let me assure you that harried, tired business travelers prefer time relaxing in the back of a limo to renting a car and driving themselves to some unfamiliar location,or hailing a taxi, especially at very early or very late hours.

And one other thing. They're taking NR fares these days, the majority of domestic business travelers. Business class still rules on intl flights.

3 or 4 changes at 100.00 a pop still beats the heck out of Y fares. And most change only once. If they end up thowing part of that ticket in a trashcan, and end up having to buy another, they still save loads.

It's a no brainer.

Many of these full Y business travelers are disappearing rapidly,and are gone for good.

Trust me on this.

 

[Winglet]

That is why we should all unite as if under one union and if the courts start abrogating contracts-shut the whole thing down. They either live up to their agreement-or liquidate and let other carriers expand-hire those displaced and fill in the gaps.

[post="205513"][/post]​

The problem is that the CEOs and BODs control the government under the Republicans. They aren't going to allow that to happen. The labor laws are designed to allow even morbidly and fundamentally mismanaged companies like US Air and UAL to limp along and extract back-breaking concessions from workers. If you're looking for a real voice from workers in the government, you're not going to find it.

Remember, "cheap" is the word of the decade and it doesn't matter if it takes Chinese prison labor or an airline worker making $7.15 an hour as a baggage handler. The executive elites don't care because they can just vote themselves compensation at 400 times the average worker pay and nobody blinks an eye . . . . and certainly not GW.

 

[Oneflyer]

Remember, "cheap" is the word of the decade and it doesn't matter if it takes Chinese prison labor or an airline worker making $7.15 an hour as a baggage handler. The executive elites don't care because they can just vote themselves compensation at 400 times the average worker pay and nobody blinks an eye . . . . and certainly not GW.

If the job is so hard and the pay is so bad, people will quit and move on the other jobs. Until enough airline workers do that then pay rates will continue to fall.

 

[aafsc]

If the job is so hard and the pay is so bad, people will quit and move on the other jobs. Until enough airline workers do that then pay rates will continue to fall.

[post="206061"][/post]​

FYI, go over to the US board. There you will find that US is hiring rampers at $7.17 and hour. They will have 4 hour shifts and be expected to pay for their uniform. Lets see, $7.17/hr. times 20 hours a week= 143.40 gross pay. Subtract about $5.00 for the uniform and about another $30 for medical, dental, etc. This will leave about 108.40. But wait, taxes( Federal, State, and Social Security) have not been taken out yet. So their take home pay will be about $80.00 a week. Subtract about $20 a week for gas to get back and forth to work. WOW, $60 a week breaking your a$$ loading full 757s. They were supposed to start a class with 10 but only 4 showed up. Those 4 will probably quit after loading their first 757.

 

[JS]

A heads up on what's happening with LCCs and alternate airports.

Leisure travelers are being offered airport B on LCCs. MUCH lower fare. You and your family will have to rent a car and maybe drive an hour or two to your destination.

Stinker, right? NO!

You can keep the car on a weekly rate. Bottom line, you save lots of money on airfares and your bottom line,and lose a few hours driving time in that week's vacation.

Grandpa (or the Disney Shuttle)doesn't have to come pick you up at the original airport,or take you back, and you have a car of your OWN for the entire time!

A freedom you would not have had if you flew the legacy carrier into airport A. Even when it's a wash, which is seldom, most choose airport B and the "Free car freedom " option for the week.

Same thing is happening the with corporate travelers,bigtime.

It's becoming VERY common for companies to approve limos, especially when there are 2 or more travelers (which is very frequent).

Let me assure you that harried, tired business travelers prefer time relaxing in the back of a limo to renting a car and driving themselves to some unfamiliar location,or hailing a taxi, especially at very early or very late hours.

And one other thing. They're taking NR fares these days, the majority of domestic business travelers. Business class still rules on intl flights.

3 or 4 changes at 100.00 a pop still beats the heck out of Y fares. And most change only once. If they end up thowing part of that ticket in a trashcan, and end up having to buy another, they still save loads.

It's a no brainer.

Many of these full Y business travelers are disappearing rapidly,and are gone for good.

Trust me on this.

[post="206005"][/post]​

What in the world are you talking about?

For leisure travelers, a weeklong car rental is not a miniscule expense. $249.99 might sound OK until you add the outrageous taxes, not to mention gasoline.

For business travelers, only a moron would prefer driving two hours to save a few bucks on airfare. Time is money!

And what is this b.s. about business travelers being given limos to drive to a different airport? If I expensed a limo, my boss would have my hide! Not to mention I would greatly prefer flying to my actual destination than to fly to some other airport and sit in a limo for two hours. That's nuts.

 

[Winglet]

WOW, $60 a week breaking your a$$ loading full 757s. They were supposed to start a class with 10 but only 4 showed up. Those 4 will probably quit after loading their first 757.

[post="206072"][/post]​

Those four probably won't pass a drug test either. You'd have to be on drugs to keep working for the vile slime-balls that run US Airways.

 

[funguy2]

FYI, go over to the US board. There you will find that US is hiring rampers at $7.17 and hour. They will have 4 hour shifts and be expected to pay for their uniform. Lets see, $7.17/hr. times 20 hours a week= 143.40 gross pay. Subtract about $5.00 for the uniform and about another $30 for medical, dental, etc. This will leave about 108.40. But wait, taxes( Federal, State, and Social Security) have not been taken out yet. So their take home pay will be about $80.00 a week. Subtract about $20 a week for gas to get back and forth to work. WOW, $60 a week breaking your a$$ loading full 757s. They were supposed to start a class with 10 but only 4 showed up. Those 4 will probably quit after loading their first 757.

[post="206072"][/post]​

If this is true, as OneFlyer suggested, US Airways will either need to 1) raise wages in order to attract competent help or 2) go out of business because nobody will load their 757's. A balance will be struck. Maybe not today, maybe not with US Airways, but a balance will be struck.

 

[funguy2]

What in the world are you talking about?

For leisure travelers, a weeklong car rental is not a miniscule expense. $249.99 might sound OK until you add the outrageous taxes, not to mention gasoline.

For business travelers, only a moron would prefer driving two hours to save a few bucks on airfare. Time is money!

And what is this b.s. about business travelers being given limos to drive to a different airport? If I expensed a limo, my boss would have my hide! Not to mention I would greatly prefer flying to my actual destination than to fly to some other airport and sit in a limo for two hours. That's nuts.

[post="227439"][/post]​

Yeah, and more, LCC's in the USA are no longer using alternative airports. Just look at the facts:

LGA: served by AirTran, ATA, Spirit, Frontier, jetBlue
DCA: AirTran, America West, ATA, Spirit, Frontier
ORD: America West, Spirit, Independence Air
DFW: America West, Frontier, ATA, AirTran
LAX: America West, Frontier, ATA, AirTran, Southwest, Spirit
BOS: America West, ATA, AirTran, jetBlue, IAir

While alternative airports may be a decent option for some, "normal" airports are getting increasing LCC service, which has collectively become a big problem for the legacies.

Perhaps Trip Confirmed was talking about Europe, where the LCC's typically only have access to secondary airports?

Leisure and Business pax alike may not be willing to pay sky-high fares, but it doesn't have anything to do with the airport served... It has to do with low-fare availability, internet shopping, and consumer's wising up to Airline policies (i.e. most business passengers don't buy walk-up fares anymore, they plan a week or two in advance...)

 

[Oneflyer]

They were supposed to start a class with 10 but only 4 showed up. Those 4 will probably quit after loading their first 757.

This is exactly my point. Cleary, in this situation, USair has reached the point where the are not paying competitive wages. To attract people capable of doing the job they will have to pay more, union contract or no union contract.

 

[FWAAA]

This is exactly my point. Cleary, in this situation, USair has reached the point where the are not paying competitive wages. To attract people capable of doing the job they will have to pay more, union contract or no union contract.

[post="227512"][/post]​

You mean to say that the free market actually works? Even without a union contract? Say it isn't so!

Seriously, I agree. Even desperate men will probably refuse to load bags on a 757 in the winter for $7/hr when Wal-Mart (and every other retailer in the country) is offering more than that for indoor work - work that is probably less physically demanding besides.

Wages will simply reach an equilibrium - they will rise until the airlines have enough competent people to meet their needs.

Right now, with a glut of airline employees, wages are falling. Very bad news for those affected. But if they fall too far, they will rise.

 

[Bob Owens]

The problem is that the CEOs and BODs control the government under the Republicans. They aren't going to allow that to happen.

[post="206033"][/post]​

Spoken like a true AFL-CIO union officer. Whats your next sentence-"United Invincible"?

Screw Bush and the CEOs. We simply stop going to work, thats all.

 

[Bob Owens]

If the job is so hard and the pay is so bad, people will quit and move on the other jobs. Until enough airline workers do that then pay rates will continue to fall.

[post="206061"][/post]​

Or until the unions start acting like unions and shut the whole thing down.

 

[Bob Owens]

FWAAA,Dec 9 2004, 05:10 PM]
You mean to say that the free market actually works? Even without a union contract? Say it isn't so!

Come now, you're sophisticated enough to know that its more complex than that. A few years back Bush would not allow the free market to run its course as he prevented airline workers from striking for more pay.

Seriously, I agree. Even desperate men will probably refuse to load bags on a 757 in the winter for $7/hr when Wal-Mart (and every other retailer in the country) is offering more than that for indoor work - work that is probably less physically demanding besides.

Wages will simply reach an equilibrium - they will rise until the airlines have enough competent people to meet their needs.

Right now, with a glut of airline employees, wages are falling. Very bad news for those affected. But if they fall too far, they will rise.

Funny but when there was a shortage our contracts prevented us from capitalizing on it but when there is a glut those same contracts offer us no protection. Why should we be willing to honor them when the next shortage comes?

So, next time you are trying to make a trip and we all just decide to walk off the job, dont complain, take comfort in knowing that the free market is working!

On the one hand you want stability and reliability but then espouse the uncertainty and instability of the free market.

 

[Oneflyer]

So, next time you are trying to make a trip and we all just decide to walk off the job, dont complain, take comfort in knowing that the free market is working!

Do it. It will work out very badly for you and anyone else that walks. You need the job worse than the company needs you.

 

[Bob Owens]

Do it. It will work out very badly for you and anyone else that walks. You need the job worse than the company needs you.

[post="228721"][/post]​

Perhaps more than just me, but when we all do it who needs who?

Trust me, at this point it would not take much for our leaders to convince us to shut it all down. Problem is they do not have the balls to do it.