Virgin America seeks to challenge WN at DAL
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eolesen
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Absolutely nothing, as usual.swamt said:
Just report the off-topic posts as they appear, and maybe the mods will either spend a little more time watching the forum, or they'll start taking action on those who dive off topic...
WorldTraveler
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the use of pass benefits, none.
How DL pursues a plan B if they don't indeed get access to the DAL gates is relevant and could well affect VX' ability to succeed in their expansion.
It's noteworthy that even though VX has targeted its growth in many AA-UA direct competitive markets, DL is also expanding in VX competitive markets. DL already flies DFW-LGA, which might be part of why VX chose not to try to compete against both AA and DL from DFW, and DL has gained share in JFK-LAX and SFO not just against AA but also against VX.
DL's growth at LAX, SFO, and SEA has been in a number of key AS markets.
SO it is possible that DL's previous growth is part of VX' attempts to find a place to compete away from DL as much as AA.
How DL pursues a plan B if they don't indeed get access to the DAL gates is relevant and could well affect VX' ability to succeed in their expansion.
It's noteworthy that even though VX has targeted its growth in many AA-UA direct competitive markets, DL is also expanding in VX competitive markets. DL already flies DFW-LGA, which might be part of why VX chose not to try to compete against both AA and DL from DFW, and DL has gained share in JFK-LAX and SFO not just against AA but also against VX.
DL's growth at LAX, SFO, and SEA has been in a number of key AS markets.
SO it is possible that DL's previous growth is part of VX' attempts to find a place to compete away from DL as much as AA.
WorldTraveler
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flip thru this page and you will see that VX has pulled down several routes in the face of increased competition and many of the cuts have been in routes outside of its core AA and UA target markets. Many of the cuts have been on the West coast where VX' product advantage is far less meaningful.
http://airlineroute.net/category/virgin-america/
http://airlineroute.net/category/virgin-america/
eolesen
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Shocking that an airline had to make cuts in the face of competition. They're a niche airline in search of a niche.
Nobody, including me, will ever make the claim that VX will be successful, and their history is definitely helping. How they've managed to continue to get funding from their investors borders on fiscal malfeasance.
However, trying to paint them as an ineffective competitor isn't going to work as an argument against them getting the two gates they've requested. This isn't a DOT route authority case. It's an anti-trust settlement, and different standards apply.
Nobody, including me, will ever make the claim that VX will be successful, and their history is definitely helping. How they've managed to continue to get funding from their investors borders on fiscal malfeasance.
However, trying to paint them as an ineffective competitor isn't going to work as an argument against them getting the two gates they've requested. This isn't a DOT route authority case. It's an anti-trust settlement, and different standards apply.
WorldTraveler
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who said I am trying to render them ineffective for the purpose of getting the gates or not?
I have called the competitive situation what it is in the industry for years, long before any asset divestiture was at stake.
And lest you think I only find fault with the competitive strategies at other airlines, I have also repeatedly said that the reason why DL pulled down DFW as a hub was because it couldn't compete against AA's hub and because most of the connecting traffic could be flowed over other hubs, the same logic that WN is using to reduce the size of its operation in ATL, UA at CLE, and what DL did at MEM and CVG.
When carriers like all of the big 4 operate multiple hubs thru which connecting traffic can flow, it doesn't matter where that traffic connects on their network. And it doesn't make DL a stronger airline in ATL than it connects 50K or more passengers or more per day thru ATL that could care less about ATL.
DL's strength in ATL, just as WN's does at MDW etc comes because of its ability to defend and grow the LOCAL MARKET in those hub cities.
VX is trying to find markets where it can generate sufficient profitability to justify an IPO. Competing in highly competitive markets along the west coast and such as on the transcons where no less than 5 carriers compete in some of those markets is not a formula that VX, a small airline compared to its other competitors can use for success.
VX if nothing wants to go to DAL to avoid alot more direct competition - DAL will be a sheltered market no matter who ends up there.
It is still far from clear how the total N. Texas- DFW/DAL market will work compared to other cities like Chicago, Houston, and Washington DC/BWI with multiple airports - but VX is trying to find a less competitive environment.
And it also reinforces that when one carrier zigs, it provides other opportunities for other carriers to zag - or add new service.
I have called the competitive situation what it is in the industry for years, long before any asset divestiture was at stake.
And lest you think I only find fault with the competitive strategies at other airlines, I have also repeatedly said that the reason why DL pulled down DFW as a hub was because it couldn't compete against AA's hub and because most of the connecting traffic could be flowed over other hubs, the same logic that WN is using to reduce the size of its operation in ATL, UA at CLE, and what DL did at MEM and CVG.
When carriers like all of the big 4 operate multiple hubs thru which connecting traffic can flow, it doesn't matter where that traffic connects on their network. And it doesn't make DL a stronger airline in ATL than it connects 50K or more passengers or more per day thru ATL that could care less about ATL.
DL's strength in ATL, just as WN's does at MDW etc comes because of its ability to defend and grow the LOCAL MARKET in those hub cities.
VX is trying to find markets where it can generate sufficient profitability to justify an IPO. Competing in highly competitive markets along the west coast and such as on the transcons where no less than 5 carriers compete in some of those markets is not a formula that VX, a small airline compared to its other competitors can use for success.
VX if nothing wants to go to DAL to avoid alot more direct competition - DAL will be a sheltered market no matter who ends up there.
It is still far from clear how the total N. Texas- DFW/DAL market will work compared to other cities like Chicago, Houston, and Washington DC/BWI with multiple airports - but VX is trying to find a less competitive environment.
And it also reinforces that when one carrier zigs, it provides other opportunities for other carriers to zag - or add new service.
SWA employees check SWAlife for updates on these gates. Looks like things are going to start picking up from what Gary put out the other day. Stay tuned to SWAlife for what we can do to help SWA win the gates, info coming soon...
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