Usairways Bankruptcy: The Return

[wwiiairliner]

Chip,
How long before USAirways declares CH.11 again?
I think it will happen by next summer.
This is the wrong management team. They missed the opportunity.

 

[delldude]

Chip,
How long before USAirways declares CH.11 again?
I think it will happen by next summer.
This is the wrong management team. They missed the opportunity.

IAM sources claim if they go back into BK,they WILL NOT EMERGE,so dwell on that for a while...it doesn't smell to rosy.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Maybe there is a BK expert out there who can comment on the legality of this scenerio:

One division of U goes into BK (mainline), which could result in elimination of some or all mainline labor contracts. Bonner, ATSB, etc have stock (or warrents in the case of ATSB I think) in U Group so the stock wouldn't become worthless as it would it Group went back in BK. Group would become the "super regional" that Dave has mentioned before with the long-haul flown by a much smaller mainline or even MDA with the disappearence of mainline as we know it.

Comments anyone?

 

[delldude]

Maybe there is a BK expert out there who can comment on the legality of this scenerio:

One division of U goes into BK (mainline), which could result in elimination of some or all mainline labor contracts. Bonner, ATSB, etc have stock (or warrents in the case of ATSB I think) in U Group so the stock wouldn't become worthless as it would it Group went back in BK. Group would become the "super regional" that Dave has mentioned before with the long-haul flown by a much smaller mainline or even MDA with the disappearence of mainline as we know it.

Comments anyone?

i believe the only way for their stock to be good is to dump it before BK filing which would end up like martha.if they hold it just ike all my colleagues who had U stock,its crapola once BK is filed.

 

[pitguy]

I would tend to think it could be about two years before Ch-11 would be possible. Considering the cash they have on hand and availability of funds to be raise through possible loans and sales of company owned stock.

 

[E-TRONS]

Anything is possible with these ROBBER-BARRONS at the wheel and I would expect nothing less than LIES and DECEIT :down:

Let's not forget the UAL factor in this equation. Since 1995 they have tried everything in their power to merge our carriers together. I suspect nothing has changed in this regard. However, you now must consider the super-regional issue too. How does all of this relate???

Please define super-regional carrier......the possible scenarios are numerous. :blink: This thing can pan-out any which way DASTARDLY-DAVE wants it to go. <_<

Dave-SADDAM-LORENZO is shrinking us for a specific reason.....and it's not to lose money. I think the chips just haven't all fallen into place yet. In other words stay tuned for the next assault on the employees to be announce in mid-December as per the company. One being that PIT is history as we know it.

Ultimately it's down to this......Somehow and someway US and UAL will become one entity. And what is worse is that we will be subjected to UAL Labor Agreements (THANKS IAM). Good-bye Maintenance Overhaul and 3500 more M&R personnel....not to mention all the other work groups found to be in excess under such circumstances.

The future is dark and uncertainty reigns the day. I hope all of you YES VOTERS now understand why you should have voted NO to the extortionary demands.......but at least you have your jobs ( <_< utmost sarcasm).

E-TRONS OUT..........of my mind already.

 

[PITbull]

I don't know about PIT being history.....

These RJs (all 400) of them that will becoming over the next 5 years has to go somewhere. PIT airspace is pretty clear, rain, sleet, snow. shine.


Unless, U wants to house them in PHL, that will surely increase "poor on-time performance".

 

[usfliboi]

Sometimes I wonder ????? Guys we will not re enter bk.... Dave has made some difficult and controversal decisions... Did he go about it the right way as far as communicating? maybe not.. One thing is for s ure. I believe we will in some way shape or form gain assets from UAL via Bronner. I think Chip is on the right track when he speaks of an uct..... We can all whine about pay cuts and go through the same crap we did last time and full pay to the last day mentality but reality is no employee will allow this airline to go under and whether we merge or not it will survive one way or the other. I m so tired of reading the nay nay nays on here but I choose to read to become informed. We are all entitled to our own opinion whether well informed or not. Im not stupid... People who voted the last go around were not stupid either and thats why all of the last dayers who say they voted no werent the majority. I gotta real strong feeling the ball will drop soon and the whole picture will become very apparent! h34r:

 

[PITbull]

usfliboi,

Get ready for the ball to drop, and don't be surprised when the employees don't pick it up!

Either this mangement take the tools and savings they were already given and make a go, or sell it , or shut the lights. Rank and file can't do anymore than we have and still do. We are too top heavy, they need to consolidate the management departments even further.

Address revenue. The economy is improving, even in our own industry. Its improving for eveyone but us. The business model does not work. Some new management is in order. If Bronner can't see it, then he doesn't deserve the return he sought out.

 

[crazyincanton]

The reason Bronner doesn't see it is because this is being sanctioned by him. No one can tell me that with the amount of money that he has put into this company and having the majority of board seats that he doesn't know what's going on. Believe me, he does. Dave is just his whipping boy to do the dirty work.

crazyincanton

 

[usfliboi]

Exactly canton!!!! Pit do you feel myself or anyone else has made the billions that bronner has mad by being stupid????????? Please these guys know what they are doing and Bronner and company have a plan! I mean be real...... If bronner who has many many many advisers in this industry felt we were on the wrong path that he would keep this team in place? We all got use to those days where we made lots of money employees were some of the highest paid and now we got what we asked for dude.... A man with the nads to make the nasty conclusions that its the cost cost cost and it had to go go go ! You nor I like it but its the way it is . Im betting on the man who has made billions for his investors and is still here I might add and hasnt sold and ran . WHY? He knows hes gonna get his money back !!!!!!!!!

 

[PITbull]

USflyboi,


First off, relax.

I am not comparing myself to Bronner, I don't think anyone is. THE POINT IS:

We will NOT give even more concessions in order for Bronner to make his billions that he is famous for. He can make his billions by operating the airline with the savings that has already been given along with knowing and having the right team in place to finish the job. If those in charge can't hurdle this and have the foresight to navigate us out of the spiral, then the dude's winning streak, that you speak so highly of is over. Losing money has rarely to do with being stupid for most savvy investors; it has to do with "timing".

As far as your point about "selling", dear sir, you've lived long enough to know "that it ain't over till its over".

 

[funguy2]

Maybe there is a BK expert out there who can comment on the legality of this scenerio:

One division of U goes into BK (mainline), which could result in elimination of some or all mainline labor contracts. Bonner, ATSB, etc have stock (or warrents in the case of ATSB I think) in U Group so the stock wouldn't become worthless as it would it Group went back in BK. Group would become the "super regional" that Dave has mentioned before with the long-haul flown by a much smaller mainline or even MDA with the disappearence of mainline as we know it.

Comments anyone?

I think this scenario is more likely than a UCT. In fact, I think Hawaiian Airlines is doing something like this now... where Hawaiian Airlines is in Bankrupcy, but Hawaiian Holdings (the holding company, like US Airways Group) is not.

From HA's website:

Hawaiian Airlines to Complete Restructuring Under Chapter 11

HONOLULU, March 21, 2003 -- Hawaiian Airlines, Inc., a subsidiary of Hawaiian Holdings, Inc. (AMEX and PCX: HA), announced today that, in order to complete a restructuring process begun several months ago to restore the company’s long-term financial health, it has filed a voluntary petition for reorganization under Chapter 11 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code. Hawaiian Holdings was not included in the filing and will not be a part of the Chapter 11 process.

I think the US Airways mainline bankrupcy is much more likely than a UAL asset purchase because:

1) US Airways is not profitable yet, therefore doesn't have the cash to go buying other airlines assets. (And UAL's creditors and/or BK couty will likely require cash to transfer assets, not stock or options, etc.)

2) Bronner has already sunk a lot of money into US Airways. I am not sure he would want to put even more cash at risk. Especially since he runs a retirement fund. Everyone knows the golden rule of investment: diversify. More RSA money into US Airways increases the risk to RSA.

3) If there is a UCT (and I am a doubter), maybe the US Airways becoming a "Super Regional" airline as part of the UAL/Star Alliance plan is the UCT.

 

[RedOne]

Crazy....I agree with you. I don't think for one minute that Mr Bonner doesn't know and approve of what is happening. We employees don't have to like what is ahead for us... we need to understand that whether we like it or not, doesn't matter. The bottom line is ...Money and Power. More money and power for financial backers/upper management and less money and say for employees. (Union busting) I still think the plan is to find a way to "sell." If it takes turning fleet and crews into RJ's, closing bases, or turning cities into express stations or MDA stations to whittle us down so we only have mainline cities another airline wants...that is what will happen. Face it, no other airline wants the majority of our cities and especially our high senior employees. Why should they? 'Turn as many of their cities and employees into WO or express, then most won't be merged into our "mainline" seniority. Get rid of as many as possible. We can live with a few of em' .
Employees give more concessions? I think the majority would say no. I know I personally would say, "Gimmie my severance package." (I just hope they don't find a way to get around that!) :blink:

 

[USA320Pilot]

US Airways must stop losing money or the airline like any other company will become insolvent.

The ATSB loan guarantee has minimum financial requirements and the loan guarantee is secured by virtually all of the company's tangible assets, therefore, it's a loaded gun to any recipient's head.

If the company re-enters bankruptcy there would likely be no Chapter 11 filing, but instead a Chapter 7 liquidation.

In regard to the UCT, I believe it's less likely now because of further deterioration of network carrier fundamentals and that's why Dave Siegel and Jeff Stanley made their recent prepared comments in their speeches.

In my opinion, before a deal can proceed US Airways must stabilize its financial position and United must prove it can emerge, then the companies and RSA will consider a corporate transaction, but industry consolidation is inevitable.

In fact, the November 14 Kiplinger newsletter said, "U.S. and European air carriers will get the OK to merge by 2010, thanks to an open skies agreement that will be hammered out by then. It won't be possible to reach a deal sooner than the end of the decade because unions don't want domestic traffic opened up to foreign carriers. Over time, though, they'll see that airlines need to merge to survive. Mergers will bring lower prices and better service for travelers on overseas and U.S. routes as carriers benefit from economies of scale."

In my opinion, both US Airways and United Airlines cannot reduce their unit costs low enough to compete long-term unless there is a merger because they must eliminate duplication through economies of scale.

For review, in prepared comments on October 28 Siegel said, "Again, I don't have all the answers, but I do sense that increased cooperation, coordination, and potentially consolidation between and among network airlines must be another source of strength through enhanced efficiencies, in both marketing and operations."

Three days later United executive Jeff Stanley said, "If things stay the way the are now, there will be several Chapter 7 (bankruptcy liquidations) down the road, and that's not good for anyone," he said. The most feasible solution to the situation is consolidation in the domestic airline industry."

In my opinion, both companies need one another to survive and although a UCT is possible, it does not create economies of scale and reduce the combined CASM. Thus, at some point in the not-so-distant future we could see RSA become a holding company, become United's equity investor, and then the new holding company could create an arrangement similar in scope to AF-KLM.

Could that be why Siegel said he senses that increased cooperation, coordination, and potentially consolidation between and among network airlines must be another source of strength through enhanced efficiencies, in both marketing and operations?

The other option would be a traditional merger where I understand one thought within the US Airways Executive Suite would be for RSA to acquire United, merger it into US Airways, keep the US Airways paint scheme/word mark, CCY headquarters, and the new airline would be called United Airlines. This would be similar in scope to the ValueJet - AirTran deal.

Regardless, I believe you are going to hear some major news regarding US Airways and its operation shortly. Then, a deal with United could proceed.

Regards,

Chip

h34r: