USAIR ALAP MEC commits Patricide

[PITbull]

Well that's all nice and ultuistic of the ALPA MEC, but clearly you guys all have to be sick and tired of the retorhic, and same old quick "do or die" timeline crapola by now. My understanding is the main reason why ALPA gave so much in concessions WAS TO SAVE THAT DAMN DB PENSION. Doesn't anyone find this management very disingenuous to wait until the last minute, so the vote doesn't go out to the ALPA membership?

I truly believe the membership should have had the opportunity to vote on this monumental decison for their own "self determination", then to have "lumped" in this equation to think about self sacrifice AGAIN to save this airline and all its employees, having management go there with Liquidation again, and again, and again, and again, and again....

I agree with that MEC rep, who had the conviction to potentially lose his OWN job if the company wanted to go there, and vote no, then to have on his hands to make a decision that effects all the lives of past retirees, present members, and future retirees on HIS hands, as WELL AS SETTING THE "NEW BAR" FOR OTHER CORPORATIONS TO GO AFTER ALL PENSIONS OF UNIONIZED AIRLINE WORKERS, AND UNION WORKERS IN GENERAL, WITHOUT A VOTE FROM ITS MEMBERS.

Ponder this, for you "well wishers" that U and Dr. Bronner and this exceptional, unique million dollar mangement team will be around for ever...what if they aren't in two years?

If Siegel is considered KING and "THE WAGE SLASHER" ACCORDING TO FORBES MAGAZINE, Why would he stay and take these concessions, when he has the potential to make millions with his band of cohorts? You really think these folks are thinking about the welfare of the rank and file to save jobs? Have they saved jobs? whose? And then there is Jerold Glass, who has his own "union busting " consulting firm. You think he is staying here? Whose running his store?

 

[AM49AAA]

US10,

You're right. Months of deliberation on a problem were condensed into a two page letter summarizing events to support their conclusion submitted to a council, supporting a position based on information not made available to the group, 1 day before the membership was denied a say on their contract and future retirement plan. When I say their conclusion I mean the 12 that actuaaly got to vote. If 20 scenarios were discussed at detail with varying points, counterpoints and risk assesment to U and was all concealed, then whatever comes out in a letter like that has the appearance of being the only option. In the absence of all the information, whatever is put forward will appear to be the only truth. This is why the Middle East is so screwed up. A few tell the masses what the truth is and in the absence of anything else that must be true. That is not to say what happened wasn't the best course of action, only a few might know assuming they were thinking without the emotion of worrying about the next paycheck. The company has you by the balls and they know it. When they have a small group trapped 24 hours a day in negotiations/deliberations dancin a jig, Stockholm syndrome sets in. The future of the company has been put on your shoulders. That is what the company wants them to think. Confidentiality clauses seperates them from any input and moral support from the group. Real leadership would have been an informed an educated group voting their contract. In fact the group may have supported their positions. They were denied all the information and their right to vote. Real democratic. Again this spit on the ideas this orginization was founded on. The best thing any pilot group could do going forward is break out of ALPA and create a union with a Constitution that actually enforces accountabilty of officers and comittee persons, promotes maximum participation and democracy and puts negotiations in the hands of prefessionals, leaving contractual modifications to vote by the rank and file.

 

[PITbull]

AM49AAA,

I agree with your summary and point. The idea is that the majority of the members may have sided with the MEC if they had all information available.

At this point ALPA MEC has not behaved democratically. And I think "the house cleaning" of the MEC is in order for the mere fact that once again...they did NOT bring the vote out to its members. Also amending the constitution to ensure "true accountability" of their leaders to uphold the democratic premise of union organizations, and provisions for membership ratification is urgent and foremost if ALPA as a union is to survive.

 

[N421LV]

So with the A-fund now officially trashed, how long before ALPA changes its tune on Age-60?

 

[Dea Certe]

CCY,

Get back the $35 Million donated to Wolf, Gangwal and Nagin. Give it to the folks who earned it. That would be "labor friendly". We had contracts we lived up to, we met our goals.

 

[mlt]

CCY,
I have re-read this LOA several times today and while there are numerous things that I have yet to digest, one sentence clearly needs to be explained:

6. (p5) Targeted balance offset by the estimated value of other retirement benefits identified.....

a. PBGC Offset. Estimated PBGC benefit assuming plan funded at 85% of priority category three.....

Question: If the plan was funded in the 70% range in the fall of 2002, has the market increased that dramatically that the plans investments have realized an increase of 15%? Additionally, if the plan is not funded at 85% then wouldn''t the new plan individual pension projections be off by approximately 15%?

I openly acknowledge I am not an expert, just trying to understand. Thanks in advance for the response.

 

[PITbull]

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On 3/23/2003 4:46:50 PM CCY wrote:

Pitbull,

You should be thankful that Dave Siegel has saved this company. He is an asset and the company would have been liquidated without this leadership skills.

We all have confidence in his abilities to make this company a successful airline. I have witnessed both the good and bad during my 20 years of service at CCY and it is great working here now. Every employee group has given concessions and had their groups reduced with the downsizing. Many good middle managers have departed the company because of this reduction and accepting other jobs.

Calling a person a union buster is a very harse claim and is uncalled for by any employee. I respect Jerry Glass for his knowledge of the industry and ability to obtain labor friendly concessions from the employee groups. Dave has always stated that the BK process will only be labor friendly and he has maintained this promise.

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Mr. CCY,

Sorry, call me an anti-conformist for not drinking the CCY Kool-aide. But I am not some kind of fool to delude myself of all this wonderfulness that is going on in CCY. Perhaps you happen to have gotten recognized, finally, for all YOUR greateness, and things are just grand in your neck of the woods; NOT from where I sit.

Talk about contrasting view points. Credit goes where credit is deserved and that is with ALL the labor groups that have given their first born, and roof over their house and sacrificed their own financial security present and future for the sake of this job and saving U.

I am not onbaord with your line of thinking. WHO SAVED THIS COMPANY ARE THE EMPLOYEES OF U! Get it straight if you are going to address me.

His forced leadership skills was a "gun to head" or else! That's not leadership that's "Saddamship". There is Profit making and than there is PROFIT MAKING on that continuim. Many of U's employees will have to liquidate their own personal assets, in order to survive, and they have a job, THIS ONE.

There are many middle mangager jobs that are gone, I agree. However, not UPPER MANAGEMENT JOBS everyone but one VP is still intact. (you had to go there). Yup, we sure saved them all; didn't YOU.

As far as Labor friendliness...labor friendly... if labor acquiesce, read Siegels words addressing the National Aviation Club in DCA on Sept. 17th. (I have the speech in writing with his definition of labor friendly).

With Regard to Union Busting, and thwarting union efforts, "When they roar we pounce"... that's their logo. What does that mean? When WHO roars and whose the WE that pounces????????

I am not going to argue any points with mangement. Until this new mangement starts addressing the health and welfare of its employees and recognizes operating in "good faith" without attaching a $$ amount to everything, is when you will have all my attention; until then; read'um and weep.

 

[us10]

mlt,

The pilot''s DB plan is currently less than 50% funded.This is due to interest rates,market performance, and the added pressure due to the 2000-2001 parity raises.

When the PBGC takes over the assets of the plan they will distribute these funds in a series of priority catagories.
Catagory 3 includes pilots 53 and older whether retired or active.The benefit for each pilot in this group is calculated by the PBGC using a modified method that in and of itself reduces the expected payout.It is estimated that current plan assets will run out when applied to this group.In fact the plan assets will only cover between 85% to 90% of the aggregate benefit of this group.There will be no plan assets remaining to spill over to priority catagory 4 (all remaining pilots) at this point the PBGC will pay benefits from it''s own funds according to their benefit schedule.Essentially the pilots 53 and older will
have first crack at the plans assets and will be in a relatively better position.

 

[mlt]

US10,
Once again, I am not an expert, but....As I read the priority categories and the payouts, if there is not enough money to payout the categories then the money is allocated proportionately. In determining the targeted amount offset the assigned value of the PBGC payout is 85% (accrual to date), yet the guidelines say the actual payout would only be 50% (proportional accrual to date). So, when the pilots are assigned a monetary value to start, they realistically are starting out at a deficit? Similar to a cash-balance pension, the 85% assigned value (fictious) is greater than the 50% actual value? Am I reading this correctly?

 

[PITbull]

UFO,

I hear you loud and am swimming out to my ship as we speak.

This mangement needs one last thing from our labor group,and have been asking for it for 2 months. They are meeting on Wednesday to ask for it again, and threaten the sun, moon and stars,and ask for our second born as the first has already been taken... and
Guess what? You know what I think, right? HA!

Seriously, I'll be waiting.

 

[Zephyr]

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On 3/23/2003 4:46:50 PM CCY wrote:

Pitbull,

You should be thankful that Dave Siegel has saved this company. He is an asset and the company would have been liquidated without this leadership skills.

We all have confidence in his abilities to make this company a successful airline. I have witnessed both the good and bad during my 20 years of service at CCY and it is great working here now. Every employee group has given concessions and had their groups reduced with the downsizing. Many good middle managers have departed the company because of this reduction and accepting other jobs.

Calling a person a union buster is a very harse claim and is uncalled for by any employee. I respect Jerry Glass for his knowledge of the industry and ability to obtain labor friendly concessions from the employee groups. Dave has always stated that the BK process will only be labor friendly and he has maintained this promise.

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CCY,

You need psychological help.

 

[delldude]

Calling a person a union buster is a very harse claim and is uncalled for by any employee.






As far as Labor friendliness...only labor friendly if labor acquiesce, read Siegels words addressing the National Aviation Club in DCA on Sept. 17th. (I have the speech in writing with his definition of labor friendly).


With Regard to Union Busting, and thwarting union efforts, "When they roar we pounce"... that''s their logo.


haven''t you guys figured it out this far into the game?there is no ''labor friendly management''....''ol davey''s contracts full of perks for getting all these concessions.it is and always will be an us against them thing!
bronner even said these concesions would give U some 6 years of "labor tranquility".
we scared them into submission.....bet this doesn''t come up over cocktails at the ''club''?

​

 

[PITbull]

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On 3/24/2003 2:02:31 PM CCY wrote:

MLT,

Concerning your questions, I would recommend that you contact your local president. They will review the contract language with you and answer any questions.

All of the stars will be aligned with the company on Wednesday.

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CCY,

Awe, the stars have just "dimmed", you guys just cancelled that meeting.