US to start CLT-FCO?

nycbusdriver said:
"extreme"?

Sorry, I'm underwhelmed.

It's already a "major player in the intl market for usairways." Of course, being ANY player in the intl market for USAirways is pretty easy, since USAirways has minimal int' presence to begin with. I guess CLT is already second, and that in itself would qualify it as a big fish in the little pond that is USAirways intl markets.
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you will see. clt has a very bright future. alot is being planned for clt.
 
etops1 said:
you will see. clt has a very bright future. alot is being planned for clt.
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Etops...I sometimes forget who's who on USAV so forgive me if I come off as an :censored: ..

I know CLT is no PITTSBURGH, nothing will ever be an PITTSBURGH unless US came back to PIT but fat chance that would happen in my lifetime unless PHL sinks literally being next to the Delaware River with the water levels increasing *coughs*

A lot is being planned for CLT including the new runway and planned expansion of an International Terminal near the new said runway I'd place my $ to see CLT get more European cities and South America routes and new entrants such as British Airways and other European carriers with openskies hath scorned...
 
etops1 said:
you will see. clt has a very bright future. alot is being planned for clt.
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I agree; in fact Parker and Co. are quite confident about the robust market that exists in CLT even in light of impending Wachovia merger. I think that you will see US look at S.America, possibly as soon as this coming fall/winter and CLT would be a prime candidate for that. There seems to have been a change in thought about S.America in the last year or so at Tempe with them now saying "our hubs are better suited for Europe and S.America" as opposed to the "primarily Europe" idea of the past.

That said, there aren't too many viable options for US in S.America at present:

BOG/Colombia in general: Lost the recent route proceedings for the 21 addtl frequencies; failed to apply for CO's "dormant" CLO frequencies (since awarded to NK for FLL-MDE)

CCS/Venezuela in general: Talk to Chavez about that one... AA and NK have pending route applications that have yet to be approved; Venezuela has threatened to reduce other current frequencies as well

GRU: No frequencies available until at least 2011; would probably have a good shot at some then on the "new entrant" basis; *A feed on TAM

GIG: 7 wkly frequencies available in 2009; US would have to make an argument that they are more deservant of them than CO is for IAH-GIG or than AA/DL is for a likely NYC-GIG route (read: nearly impossible); *A feed on TAM

EZE: Frequencies available, no *A feed on the other end. Long route that would likely require an A332 or possibly a weight-restricted 767

SCL: Long route, small small market; no *A feed

LIM: Probably the best market for US at the present time; within the range of a 757 from CLT or PHL; decent tourist traffic to Peru
 
FutureUScapt said:
I agree; in fact Parker and Co. are quite confident about the robust market that exists in CLT even in light of impending Wachovia merger. I think that you will see US look at S.America, possibly as soon as this coming fall/winter and CLT would be a prime candidate for that. There seems to have been a change in thought about S.America in the last year or so at Tempe with them now saying "our hubs are better suited for Europe and S.America" as opposed to the "primarily Europe" idea of the past.

That said, there aren't too many viable options for US in S.America at present:

BOG/Colombia in general: Lost the recent route proceedings for the 21 addtl frequencies; failed to apply for CO's "dormant" CLO frequencies (since awarded to NK for FLL-MDE)

CCS/Venezuela in general: Talk to Chavez about that one... AA and NK have pending route applications that have yet to be approved; Venezuela has threatened to reduce other current frequencies as well

GRU: No frequencies available until at least 2011; would probably have a good shot at some then on the "new entrant" basis; *A feed on TAM

GIG: 7 wkly frequencies available in 2009; US would have to make an argument that they are more deservant of them than CO is for IAH-GIG or than AA/DL is for a likely NYC-GIG route (read: nearly impossible); *A feed on TAM

EZE: Frequencies available, no *A feed on the other end. Long route that would likely require an A332 or possibly a weight-restricted 767

SCL: Long route, small small market; no *A feed

LIM: Probably the best market for US at the present time; within the range of a 757 from CLT or PHL; decent tourist traffic to Peru
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Is LIM an "OPEN SKIES" market where any US carrier can start service or are they limited? Which South American markets are currently open skies markets?
 
Airline Employee said:
Is LIM an "OPEN SKIES" market where any US carrier can start service or are they limited? Which South American markets are currently open skies markets?
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The bilaterals in place with nearly all of the countries in S.America allow the US to designate any airline to provide service between the US and that particular country. The trick is, that most of the lucrative markets are rather restricted. The general agreements in place with the other countries are as follows:

Argentina: Not open skies per se, but a recently expanded agreement allows up to 112 wkly frequencies by 03/2009. I don't know exactly how many are in use today, but it certainly isn't anywhere close to that number.

Brazil: 7 wkly in 06/2009, 7 addtl wkly in 10/2009, 14 addtl wkly in 10/2010; The first seven must be used for N/NE Brazil, CNF, or GIG. The remaining 21 can be used for any city except GRU (unless the regulatory constraints related to infrastructure concerns at GRU are lifted by that point, which most believe won't be until around 2011)

Chile: Open-skies

Colombia: All available frequencies currently in use. BAQ and CTG are open skies, but US would have no interest in either of those

Ecuador: I forgot to mention GYE/UIO in the previous post. Ecuador has traditionally been a strong cargo market, plus there is probably some tourist traffic to GYE as it's a jumping off point for the Galapagos Islands. Both UIO and GYE are within the range of an A319 from CLT; however, UIO sits at about 10,000 ft. so that may cause some operational implications.

As far as the bilateral with Ecuador goes, my understanding is that a total of 22 wkly frequencies are available to points in the US to cities other than MIA or NYC. Of those, CO is currently using 7 for IAH-UIO and DL is/will be using a total of 8 for ATL-UIO/GYE. CO may be holding onto some dormant ones as well since they just recently dropped GYE; hence, few, if any, frequencies are probably available for a new airline wanting to start service.

There are 15 frequencies dedicated to NYC, of which none are being used, so I'm sure the Ecuadorian govt would have no problem entertaining an argument that some of those be used for service to another gateway, but that's just my opinion.

Peru: Open-skies

Venezuela Any written agreement that may exist apparently doesn't hold much weight with Chavez and his pals.
 
etops1 said:
clt has extreme potential in becoming a major player in the intl market for usairways. do not underestimate the clt hub. clt is no pit.
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That's correct. CLT has less or equal O&D traffic and it's major industry just cratered, whereas PIT's went 25+ years ago and has been thru the rebound.

Let's be real: CLT's not turning into a major TATL gateway. No money in it absent local traffic which is not there.

Ditto the caribbean/latin/central america. If it's not running today, what makes you think it's gonna run tomorrow?

Domestically, CLT is one entry from Southwest away from being dropped like 3rd period french. Doing so would crater the domestic yields that US currently enjoys at the expense of the locals.
 
FutureUScapt said:
The bilaterals in place with nearly all of the countries in S.America allow the US to designate any airline to provide service between the US and that particular country. The trick is, that most of the lucrative markets are rather restricted. The general agreements in place with the other countries are as follows:

Argentina: Not open skies per se, but a recently expanded agreement allows up to 112 wkly frequencies by 03/2009. I don't know exactly how many are in use today, but it certainly isn't anywhere close to that number.

Brazil: 7 wkly in 06/2009, 7 addtl wkly in 10/2009, 14 addtl wkly in 10/2010; The first seven must be used for N/NE Brazil, CNF, or GIG. The remaining 21 can be used for any city except GRU (unless the regulatory constraints related to infrastructure concerns at GRU are lifted by that point, which most believe won't be until around 2011)

Chile: Open-skies

Colombia: All available frequencies currently in use. BAQ and CTG are open skies, but US would have no interest in either of those

Ecuador: I forgot to mention GYE/UIO in the previous post. Ecuador has traditionally been a strong cargo market, plus there is probably some tourist traffic to GYE as it's a jumping off point for the Galapagos Islands. Both UIO and GYE are within the range of an A319 from CLT; however, UIO sits at about 10,000 ft. so that may cause some operational implications.

As far as the bilateral with Ecuador goes, my understanding is that a total of 22 wkly frequencies are available to points in the US to cities other than MIA or NYC. Of those, CO is currently using 7 for IAH-UIO and DL is/will be using a total of 8 for ATL-UIO/GYE. CO may be holding onto some dormant ones as well since they just recently dropped GYE; hence, few, if any, frequencies are probably available for a new airline wanting to start service.

There are 15 frequencies dedicated to NYC, of which none are being used, so I'm sure the Ecuadorian govt would have no problem entertaining an argument that some of those be used for service to another gateway, but that's just my opinion.

Peru: Open-skies

Venezuela Any written agreement that may exist apparently doesn't hold much weight with Chavez and his pals.
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YVINTERN said:
We all know CLT is the crown jewel of the us airways system domestically and we do need to add international out of there to South America pronto!
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I wish we really would start up service to South America! That would be sweet! I'm sure it's not going to happen anytime in the near future though, or at least while I'm here.
 
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