US Bolsters Flying to Big Apple

[CactUS4Ever]

Flew LGA PBI on DL Yesterday...flight was packed full...DL runs this 3x a day on the A319s currently...and hey we got a meal in F!

I dont think PBI is a good idea. I worked PBI flights at TWA out of LGA for years and the flights never went out on time because the ppl that fly there are a pain in the arse. They want a cheap ticket and everything for free when they get to the airport.

 

[jimntx]

Flew LGA PBI on DL Yesterday...flight was packed full...DL runs this 3x a day on the A319s currently...and hey we got a meal in F!

Let's not forget...a full flight does not mean a profitable flight. Not only can you have the situation that all the tickets were $89 one-way, to 'resort' destinations on certain days half the plane might be non-rev employees and family.

I agree with cactus4ever...PBI is one of the routes with the most demanding passengers. The only time I worked a flight to PBI that I enjoyed was a special case. I worked the first flight from DFW to PBI when the airports reopened after 9/11. Those people were very quiet and followed instructions to the letter. Of course, they also were nervous enough that we sold over $250 worth of liquor in coach on that flight. And that was when the liquor and the beer were $3 each.

 

[Travelpro72]

Be it PBI or other cities of similar size US needs to add some point to point flying with mainline a/c out of LGA. Couple the large passenger base to pull from with some connecting traffic and it could work. Every airline faces fierce competition at all three NY/NJ area airport. Us can't hold their head above water in LGA and make it work? If not it's serious cause for concern. This management team has NEVER, NEVER, EVER been able to admit a mistake but closing the base in LGA was one of them. With the deal off the table and expanding in LGA it would only make sense to have some sort of base there to keep the operation moving smoothly without relying on getting crews up from CLT, DCA and PHL. I'm sorry but the size of the operation on the east coast justifies more than the current three bases. Make LGA work US.........For God's sake MAKE IT WORK! ! !

 

[CactUS4Ever]

Be it PBI or other cities of similar size US needs to add some point to point flying with mainline a/c out of LGA. Couple the large passenger base to pull from with some connecting traffic and it could work. Every airline faces fierce competition at all three NY/NJ area airport. Us can't hold their head above water in LGA and make it work? If not it's serious cause for concern. This management team has NEVER, NEVER, EVER been able to admit a mistake but closing the base in LGA was one of them. With the deal off the table and expanding in LGA it would only make sense to have some sort of base there to keep the operation moving smoothly without relying on getting crews up from CLT, DCA and PHL. I'm sorry but the size of the operation on the east coast justifies more than the current three bases. Make LGA work US.........For God's sake MAKE IT WORK! ! !

I agree with TravelPro72. LGA WILL work if they put a little time and effort into it. US Airways needs to look at where people want to fly from NY and start competing. US has the best terminal in LGA and great location. When LGA comes into my mind i I think US Airways. Doug and Crew need to compete and stop running. US Airways should be bigger at LGA than DL and AA combined. Lets Do This. Make It Happen and Lets Kick Arse in LGA.

 

[Travelpro72]

Well US is certainly turning up the heat on the PHL-BOS market with designated curbside check-in, security lines and gates. Let's see how it plays out against WN. They really need to put more focus on LGA and turn up the heat as well. As mentioned, they HAVE the resources to take LGA and turn it into a powerhouse. That's IF they want to and IF they have the ability to think it through and plan carefully.

 

[aptboeses]

I think people forget that US is short on mainline a/c since they sold 10 E190's to Republic. That's part of the reason we saw the reduction of T/A destinations this summer. US took those freed up a/c and pushed them down the system to back fill the holes. The only airplanes US has any room to play with are "Express" planes. You won't be seeing more mainline flying out of LGA until we get more mainline a/c and if we do it would most likely be E190 flying. LGA already has most of it's top O&D destinations well served by other airlines.

US also suffers from having the lack of the appropriate sized "Express" a/c for the type of operation they want to run out of LGA. We have CRJ's, E145's, E170/175's flying to destinations that would be better served with more efficient a/c such as the Q400 which either burn less fuel or have more seats to spread the cost. Unfortunately US is hamstrung by the fact of the pilot scope clause which allows 96 86 seat a/c but doesn't allow 76 seat turboprops which could be flown by our subsidiary Piedmont keeping the revenue all for US and allowing scheduling flexibility as needed. (I'm not saying they should give up more but what, in my opinion, would have been better in the first place.)

 

[PullUp]

I think people forget that US is short on mainline a/c since they sold 10 E190's to Republic. That's part of the reason we saw the reduction of T/A destinations this summer. US took those freed up a/c and pushed them down the system to back fill the holes. The only airplanes US has any room to play with are "Express" planes. You won't be seeing more mainline flying out of LGA until we get more mainline a/c and if we do it would most likely be E190 flying. LGA already has most of it's top O&D destinations well served by other airlines.

US also suffers from having the lack of the appropriate sized "Express" a/c for the type of operation they want to run out of LGA. We have CRJ's, E145's, E170/175's flying to destinations that would be better served with more efficient a/c such as the Q400 which either burn less fuel or have more seats to spread the cost. Unfortunately US is hamstrung by the fact of the pilot scope clause which allows 96 86 seat a/c but doesn't allow 76 seat turboprops which could be flown by our subsidiary Piedmont keeping the revenue all for US and allowing scheduling flexibility as needed. (I'm not saying they should give up more but what, in my opinion, would have been better in the first place.)

The company can request relief and negotiate for anything it wants to do. The scope clause is just a convenient excuse.
The company still holds options for E190's. They would be a practical substitute for shuttle flying between NY and DC, freeing up AB frames for mainline routes (whatever those are these days...)
For short haul work, the 190 is good. Long haul (over 2 hours), not so much...

 

[autofixer]

The company can request relief and negotiate for anything it wants to do. The scope clause is just a convenient excuse.
The company still holds options for E190's. They would be a practical substitute for shuttle flying between NY and DC, freeing up AB frames for mainline routes (whatever those are these days...)
For short haul work, the 190 is good. Long haul (over 2 hours), not so much...

Nothing is keeping the company from putting Q400s on the mainline, just negotiate the pay rates and bingo, it's done!

 

[aptboeses]

The company can request relief and negotiate for anything it wants to do. The scope clause is just a convenient excuse.
The company still holds options for E190's. They would be a practical substitute for shuttle flying between NY and DC, freeing up AB frames for mainline routes (whatever those are these days...)
For short haul work, the 190 is good. Long haul (over 2 hours), not so much...

While it is true that the company can request relief it is VERY unlikely they would get it. They pilot group has made it very clear they will not be doing anymore favors until they get a new contract. And we all know that it most likely won't happen in the next couple of years.

While US may hold options for E190's they lack the financing to firm up the options and take delivery. (Hence the deferrals of Airbus aircraft) I believe that the LGA-DCA route does well for US and an E190 would limit the profit potential. Weekends of course are an entirely different animal much the reason why you see the E190 on some DCA-BOS flights.

The E190's are great airplanes that would do well on all flights it could reasonably operate. The only problem US has with it is that they wanted more seats at the expense of a decent closet and additional galley. Other than that it's a pretty good airplane and suits a lot of routes US operates. (Think of all of those old F100 - DC9 routes)

 

[cynic]

While it is true that the company can request relief it is VERY unlikely they would get it. They pilot group has made it very clear they will not be doing anymore favors until they get a new contract. And we all know that it most likely won't happen in the next couple of years.

When management made the request to add Q400s to Piedmont, the pilots wanted their pensions returned with interest in return for granting scope relief.

 

[redheadtempe33]

When management made the request to add Q400s to Piedmont, the pilots wanted their pensions returned with interest in return for granting scope relief.

Seriously?!

 

[cynic]

Seriously?!

That's what I was told by someone that would have knowledge of the situation.

 

[TBONEJ4J]

When management made the request to add Q400s to Piedmont, the pilots wanted their pensions returned with interest in return for granting scope relief.

Complete nonsense. Didn't Piedmont approve an LOA for Q400s?

Doug et al. have no interest in Piedmont and are content to let it wither while the Dash 8s reach the end of their useful life. Tempe doesn't even bother to make excuses for it. They couldn't care less.

Now when it comes to the local small-time caretaker management at Piedmont - I've no doubt they would use any opportunity to blame the Piedmont pilots for anything. I'm sure that's where that nonsense about the pension originates. You really thing a PDT pension is worth that much?

And since when do the PDT pilots control Scope and the relief of same?

 

[TBONEJ4J]

Complete nonsense. Didn't Piedmont approve an LOA for Q400s?

Doug et al. have no interest in Piedmont and are content to let it wither while the Dash 8s reach the end of their useful life. Tempe doesn't even bother to make excuses for it. They couldn't care less.

Now when it comes to the local small-time caretaker management at Piedmont - I've no doubt they would use any opportunity to blame the Piedmont pilots for anything. I'm sure that's where that nonsense about the pension originates. You really thing a PDT pension is worth that much?

And since when do the PDT pilots control Scope and the relief of same?

On second read perhaps the pension reference and scope relief was referring to the mainline pilot group.

My misunderstanding. Still nonsense though 😀

 

[cynic]

On second read perhaps the pension reference and scope relief was referring to the mainline pilot group.

My misunderstanding. Still nonsense though 😀

Looks like you got it this time. I wasn't there, just going with what someone told me they witnessed. I wish I could verify it independently, but the source was not from Piedmont. There wasn't anyone from Piedmont present at the meeting as I understand it.

There was an agreement with (Piedmont) ALPA over rates for "large turboprop aircraft", but it was only viable if the aircraft were on the property within a specified period of time. That limit has expired and would require new negotiations and given their contract negotiations, I wouldn't count on that being resolved in short order. There was never an agreement to purchase aircraft from anyone.

As for Piedmont withering, you're most likely correct. Most of their profit comes from ground handling, not flying. The oldest aircraft will starting hitting 80k cycles starting next fall and there are no replacements in sight. Q400s wouldn't work as replacements for the 100s and 300s they have, so the flying would have to come at the expense of Air Wisconsin, PSA, Mesa or Republic. Given the loans that Air Wisconsin and Republic have given the company and the accompanying contract extensions, that's obviously not going to happen. The wild card is the Mesa contract. Once that is resolved, things on the regional side will become much more clear.