US and DL trade blows on new hub routes

[WorldTraveler]

You cannot deny that DL has put RJs into an aweful lot of US markets and created havoc over the years. DL’s use of an RJ in CLT to NYC is a minor diversion given their massive fleet; US’ commitment of an RJ in DCAATL is one less aircraft they can use in their transformation plan.

 

[ITRADE]

Was it 3x daily LGA-CLT? I thought that there was some JFK service in there too.

 

[WorldTraveler]

3X LGA-CLT and 1X JFK-CLT

 

[Borescope]

Interesting how all the airlines are "adding" new service. It makes the consumer think they're going to get on some big shiney jet of a mainline carrier. They show up and find out it's a lawn dart from a commuter they're flying on. Most of the legacy carriers have announced expansion, but it's going to be on the more profitable international routes.

 

[deltawatch]

With a competitive cost structure and frequent traveler base, US Airways will match up well against Comair.

Passengers will continue to fly US Airways between CLT & LGA on a mainline aircraft versus an RJ with their FTP account growing.

Today's message: fares are coming down and costs must be lower than revenue.

Regards,

USA320Pilot

[post="188814"][/post]​

Most of the CLT-LGA psgrs drive to GSO and take Delta now.......

 

[sfb]

Yes, US used to run 3x daily Mesa RJs. It was halted due to 9-11 and never resumed.

Actually, US used to run mainline between ATL and DCA back in 1999 and 2000; I flew on an F100 on the route Presidents' Day Weekend in 2000. US was pretty aggressive with Metrojet into ATL back in the day, too -- they flew from ATL to BWI, IAD, and RDU if memory serves.

As far as I can tell, US flying ATL-DCA will have less of an effect than DL flying CLT-LGA. After all, Delta already has plenty of ATL-WAS competition from AirTran, United, and Independence, while US Airways' only non-stop competition to NYC comes from Continental at EWR. Fares are quite a bit higher on NYC-CLT than on WAS-ATL, as well.

 

[JS]

... Fares are quite a bit higher on NYC-CLT than on WAS-ATL, as well.

[post="188947"][/post]​

Not any more. With only a 14 day advance purchase and seat availability, CLT-NYC is now just $178 plus tax roundtrip.

I don't understand what Delta is doing. They did the same thing in the GSP-NYC market. US used to be the only carrier with non-stop service to LGA. Delta/Comair started flying to LGA and the fares are now only $126 plus tax one way with 14 day advance purchase and seat availability.

Is Delta trying to be a discount carrier?

 

[jimntx]

No. It's called smelling blood in the water. If AA were in UAIR's position, I suspect you would see DL bringing the 767s back to DFW instead of pulling out. I suspect that DL thinks they can sustain a $126 fare longer than UAIR can.

I don't think that DL and WN will be alone in attacking UAIR in its hubs.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Not any more. With only a 14 day advance purchase and seat availability, CLT-NYC is now just $178 plus tax roundtrip.

I don't understand what Delta is doing. They did the same thing in the GSP-NYC market. US used to be the only carrier with non-stop service to LGA. Delta/Comair started flying to LGA and the fares are now only $126 plus tax one way with 14 day advance purchase and seat availability.

Is Delta trying to be a discount carrier?

[post="188994"][/post]​

I guess there is a "fare God." Seems Delta is as stupid as US Airways. Basically, we can assume that this concocted scheme is Delta's "Go Away" fares....if you catch my drift.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Don't discount the fact that the lowest fare available and the average fare paid are two different things, and it's the average that matters.

Jim

 

[JS]

Don't discount the fact that the lowest fare available and the average fare paid are two different things, and it's the average that matters.

Jim

[post="189006"][/post]​

Normally someone pays the lowest fare available, which is not necessarily the lowest published fare, but I know what you're getting at.

There are lower roundtrip fares for GSP-NYC with a Saturday night stay, but the $178 CLT-NYC is the lowest published fare.

In the case of GSP-NYC (where I live to where I go on business frequently), the lowest available fare for me has been the $126 one way fare. Gee, it seems their awful CRJ's never fill up. I never actually take their non-stop flight, though; I will change planes anywhere before I step foot on that horrible plane.

The fares I pay have dropped from $450 to $290 roundtrip. I don't fly more often, though. The reason I fly to NYC is for important business, not because it's $160 less. Delta or USAir now make $160 less every time I need to go to NYC.

 

[air chief]

Interesting how all the airlines are "adding" new service. It makes the consumer think they're going to get on some big shiney jet of a mainline carrier. They show up and find out it's a lawn dart from a commuter they're flying on. Most of the legacy carriers have announced expansion, but it's going to be on the more profitable international routes.

[post="188841"][/post]​

[/quote


Just look at whats going on in PIT. The county government officials cant say enough good stuff about INDY Air. Frequent serive to the dc area and cheap fares to boot. Dont say anyting about the type of equipment they.re flying. 50 seater baby jets.

Takes 2 of them baby jets to equal lnding fee of a a319. Can someone also excplain why Allegheny County is offering Lufthansa reduced rent and landing fees in order to get them to fly the PIT/FRA route when U already was flying it and wasnt offered any incentive to continue it? BA flew the PIT/LGW rte for a while until they couldnt accept a 3/4 empty b747 everyday .

Just confirms for me that this region as assbackwards as it gets. Close the barn door after the cow got out.

 

[JS]

Just look at whats going on in PIT. The county government officials cant say enough good stuff about INDY Air. Frequent serive to the dc area and cheap fares to boot. Dont say anyting about the type of equipment they.re flying. 50 seater baby jets.

It's not just PIT. A co-worker was telling me about this new airline called "Independence Air" that had super low fares to DC. I said, yes, I've heard about it, but they fly those awful CRJ's. He looked at me like I said two heads and said, "What's a CRJ?"

 

[ClueByFour]

Takes 2 of them baby jets to equal lnding fee of a a319. Can someone also excplain why Allegheny County is offering Lufthansa reduced rent and landing fees in order to get them to fly the PIT/FRA route when U already was flying it and wasnt offered any incentive to continue it? BA flew the PIT/LGW rte for a while until they couldnt accept a 3/4 empty b747 everyday .

1. The ACAA is offering the incentives because U left. And ACAA (and the county) would be crazy to give another dime to an organization that boned them large in the 11th hour of the first Chapter 11.

2. BA flew a 767 to PIT for at least the last two years of that flight, and maybe more.

 

[RowUnderDCA]

If ACAA is using airport revenue to fund fee waivers, they cant do it to prevent the exit from a market. fee waivers can only be provided on a temporary basis for new service. New service can mean a new entrant and/or a new route, but not an old route by an existing carrier on that route.... that would just lead to 'flipping.'