listen guys , i don't have a bad attitude against our ff fliers. what i have a bad attitude about is the fact that you guys sometime think that everything revols around you . we certainly appreaceate all the business you bring us. it's that everytime the company does something you guys don't like we here, " well i guess i am going to united then" it gets old ok. i mean how loyal are you really? if you do not get your way you guys start ranting and raving on how united does it this way and jetblue has this and american has that. each airline is different . face it ,we are not what we once were. but i can damn sure tell you that we have the best people in the industry and if that isn't a reason to keep flying us then please go fly united with there "ps" service . there will always be someone else who will fill your shoes. the company is taking strides to make our domestic 1st class product much better. it's not going to be like united's "ps" service but it's going to be better than is was. glassware will return this month i beleive and we will have a choice of meals for you guys "plated". we have very proud employees at airways . please stop putting us down everytime something does not go your way. decisions will be made that pax and employees alike will not agree with. we just have to roll with the punches and move on. this company has become much better than it was last year. we certainly have a long way to go but we have come a long way since. give us some time . stop critizising everything that's done. from the website to the f/c product. it gets very old.
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US Airways - new changes of Seat configurations
- Thread starter Diamondbacks2004
- Start date
Art at ISP
Veteran
ETOPS
I am the last person who whines when I don't get my way. I have been very flexible and am always willing to listen to reason. Furthermore I have NEVER given any indication that everything revolves around me. It certainly doesn't.
There may be very good reasons to reduce the F cabin of the 321 from 26 to 16, or perhaps 20 or 22. There may be other good reasons to do other things we don't like, but to date the company has shown no willingness to share those reasons with us. And while I am very easygoing and understanding, I don't think there is any reason to question my loyalty to US. I stayed when some of my colleagues would have bolted long ago. And anytime I did say I was going to UA, I did, but I always came back. When US cut the hot meals on the transcons I told Ms. Thompson that I would not fly US transcon until they came back. I kept my word. US lost about $8-9K in revenue just from me. We had others who left as well, and I guess they got the message, because the hot meals came back, and so did I. And if a significant number of high yield FF's move on, there may not be someone to replace all that revenue--it might take 3 or 4 customers to replace the revenue of 1 high yield 100K customer..and remember high load factors do not equal profits.
As someone else said, if they want to cut the 321 to 16, fine, but explain why. At least have a dialog with your customers...something that did happen at CCY, but has not happened at the sandcastle. There is a history of having decisions reversed or changed based on customer feedback--making happy customers and happy employees.
Now in the past week or two I have heard rumblings of establishing a dialog with frequent customers (who I repeat bring in a disproportional percentage of the revenue), but no substance as yet.
It goes beyond the number of F seats in the 321, ETOPS...basic business principles 101---ignore the customer and soon you won't have to worry about listening to them because you won't have any.
And for what it's worth, PS is worlds apart, and profitable for UA..and often the fares are equal or lower than US.
So let's all put the rhetoric aside, and stop sniping at each other--we all want the same thing--a successful US with happy customers AND happy employees.
Have a great day.
PS I will look for signs of the improved F service on Friday when I fly a transcon--on US.
My best to you all.....
I am the last person who whines when I don't get my way. I have been very flexible and am always willing to listen to reason. Furthermore I have NEVER given any indication that everything revolves around me. It certainly doesn't.
There may be very good reasons to reduce the F cabin of the 321 from 26 to 16, or perhaps 20 or 22. There may be other good reasons to do other things we don't like, but to date the company has shown no willingness to share those reasons with us. And while I am very easygoing and understanding, I don't think there is any reason to question my loyalty to US. I stayed when some of my colleagues would have bolted long ago. And anytime I did say I was going to UA, I did, but I always came back. When US cut the hot meals on the transcons I told Ms. Thompson that I would not fly US transcon until they came back. I kept my word. US lost about $8-9K in revenue just from me. We had others who left as well, and I guess they got the message, because the hot meals came back, and so did I. And if a significant number of high yield FF's move on, there may not be someone to replace all that revenue--it might take 3 or 4 customers to replace the revenue of 1 high yield 100K customer..and remember high load factors do not equal profits.
As someone else said, if they want to cut the 321 to 16, fine, but explain why. At least have a dialog with your customers...something that did happen at CCY, but has not happened at the sandcastle. There is a history of having decisions reversed or changed based on customer feedback--making happy customers and happy employees.
Now in the past week or two I have heard rumblings of establishing a dialog with frequent customers (who I repeat bring in a disproportional percentage of the revenue), but no substance as yet.
It goes beyond the number of F seats in the 321, ETOPS...basic business principles 101---ignore the customer and soon you won't have to worry about listening to them because you won't have any.
And for what it's worth, PS is worlds apart, and profitable for UA..and often the fares are equal or lower than US.
So let's all put the rhetoric aside, and stop sniping at each other--we all want the same thing--a successful US with happy customers AND happy employees.
Have a great day.
PS I will look for signs of the improved F service on Friday when I fly a transcon--on US.
My best to you all.....
MarkMyWords
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 1,900
- 1
ETOPS,
Your post is just so wrong on so many levels....go back and read what you are telling our CUSTOMERS....the people that PAY your BILLS. Every customer deserves the chance to be heard and voice their opinion. They pay for services and transportation and are allowed voice their concerns where ever they please.
News flash.....EVERYTHING DOES REVOVLE AROUND THE CUSTOMER! Without the Customer, we would not have a job. Change is difficult. As a Customer, the perception of losing something, while being charged the same (or more) for the product, is frustrating. It is the same for employees. Every time we change a policy or procedure, you hear the same type of grumbling. No one likes change, but change is inevitable. That is what helps us evolve and adapt to the new market environment. So allow them to voice their legitimate concerns.
I am with you. I hate to hear our VFF'stalk about leaving US to fly with someone else. But, put yourself in the Customers shoes. You are paying 1000.00 to fly between two cities. You can fly US and be offered the bare minimum in service, or you can fly another carrier and get more for your money. You may be a nice guy, but I am going to spend my money where I get the most bang for my buck. You and I are no different. When I buy revenue tickets, I look for the best price for the ammenities that I will get. Sometimes US wins, sometimes we lose.
Your comment about our FF's just "going" because there will alwyas be someone to fill your shoes sounds like what Tempe is banking on. For every VFF'er that leaves, we will win over someone else. Just how are we going to do that? With what ammenities? What service? Yes, we are making improvements to our F service, but at what cost? We have already driven many people away because of the stripped down service we were offering. How do we let them know that we are changing things? Once they have tried someone else, you have to work that much harder at getting them to come back.
ETOPS, you are a great employee that is very dedicated to what you do and the company you work for. Please, please, please.....don't take the comments you read here personally. It is not an attack against you, it is a csutomer voicing their concerns and frustrations at the changes taking place.
Well, it's definitely a world apart with 3 very distinct classes, including lie flat seats in First and true biz seats in J. But that comes at a price that is NOT lower than US. A coach roundtrip fare on a UA PS flight from JFK-LAX is around $800. Biz $1700 and First $4600. Interestingly, AA had the market cornered for years on the JFK-LAX route. Now they share it with UA and soon DL will be offering it too. The rumor that UA was thinking of starting PS on the PHL-SFO/LAX runs would definitely steal away the really premium customers who pay top dollar, but I don't know if the market can really sustain a 3 class aircraft with most of the seats filled by paid fares(rather than upgrades)
Art at ISP
Veteran
PHL,
On more than one occasion, PS was equal to or lower than US pricing on itineraries I flew. I guess it depends on when you book as well as availability.
Although the upgrade process is different, I really haven't missed yet on PS. It is quite an experience, on board though.
And for what its worth, AA never really had a monopoly on JFK-LAX. UA was always there with DC-10s and 747s at one point, as well as 767's until not long ago. Back in the day, there was always TWA with 747's and L1011's and the PanAm 747's as well. THOSE were the days indeed.
That aside, thank you MarkMyWords for your statement of support. I completely agree with you. All we really want is a voice. I think to ignore your customers is a cardinal sin of business. We have been effective in the past, we just want to be heard.
On more than one occasion, PS was equal to or lower than US pricing on itineraries I flew. I guess it depends on when you book as well as availability.
Although the upgrade process is different, I really haven't missed yet on PS. It is quite an experience, on board though.
And for what its worth, AA never really had a monopoly on JFK-LAX. UA was always there with DC-10s and 747s at one point, as well as 767's until not long ago. Back in the day, there was always TWA with 747's and L1011's and the PanAm 747's as well. THOSE were the days indeed.
That aside, thank you MarkMyWords for your statement of support. I completely agree with you. All we really want is a voice. I think to ignore your customers is a cardinal sin of business. We have been effective in the past, we just want to be heard.
I should have clarified about AA...they've had the PS market from JFK-LAX pretty well held for a while now with their "Flagship" service that is, more or less, what you get in 3 classes of service on a transoceanic flight.
Now, the old days of TWA, etc....incomparable. Who could forget the upstairs bar/lounge on a 747!
Now, the old days of TWA, etc....incomparable. Who could forget the upstairs bar/lounge on a 747!
It amazes me how much I hear "Art" and "Piney" make comparisons to UA and others constantly. Take a look at UA's post bankruptcy financials and then talk about how great everything first class this and first class that is out there. To survive in this business LONG TERM you must keep your costs competetive and that includes the revenue yields your number of seats on the a/c produce.
Trust me...just because they don't respond to your concerns..."Art" and "Piney" in person...doesn't mean they aren't talking to other frequent flyers. Don't forget...there are other frequent flyers with concerns too!!
Trust me...just because they don't respond to your concerns..."Art" and "Piney" in person...doesn't mean they aren't talking to other frequent flyers. Don't forget...there are other frequent flyers with concerns too!!
Mark, Although I have disagreed with you on other threads, but this is one that I fully agree with you on. Without our loyal customers, there are no jobs. Sometimes, thats what I wish for-just kidding! Seriously, this is a pretty high stress time for our customers and our fellow employees. Many, in fact, most of the changes that are taking place we have no control over. I really do believe there is a plan in place although it has not been communicated very well. I have to believe it. I have to believe that those of us on the front lines-(dont plan on going anywhere-flex hours work for my family.) will help keep our preferred by giving the type of customer service they deserve. I hope that our most loyal customers will not base their future trvl based on some of these posts. It saddens me that there has been a lack of communication with our preferred because their knowlege of this airline far outweighs mine. I do think their input is very important and is a sample of how our other members feel.
Art at ISP
Veteran
UW,
I have spoken to people within, and I have information as to how much or how little they are talking to the customers. I would also venture to say they are talking to west customers much more frequently than east.
When I call or email someone, I DO expect the courtesy of a reply, be it from that person or a designated subordinate. And when I spend $30-$50K a year with your company, I have earned the right to be heard.
If your condescending attitude is prevalent among your colleagues in Tempe, then the handwriting is on the wall. Furthermore, you can cut costs in other ways without cheapening the customer experience.
Why don't you PM me when you get the anti customer chip off your shoulder and let's talk about this. I am most reasonable, as others within Tempe who know me will attest.
I challenge you to debate me one on one....in private if you like.
My best to you all.....
I have spoken to people within, and I have information as to how much or how little they are talking to the customers. I would also venture to say they are talking to west customers much more frequently than east.
When I call or email someone, I DO expect the courtesy of a reply, be it from that person or a designated subordinate. And when I spend $30-$50K a year with your company, I have earned the right to be heard.
If your condescending attitude is prevalent among your colleagues in Tempe, then the handwriting is on the wall. Furthermore, you can cut costs in other ways without cheapening the customer experience.
Why don't you PM me when you get the anti customer chip off your shoulder and let's talk about this. I am most reasonable, as others within Tempe who know me will attest.
I challenge you to debate me one on one....in private if you like.
My best to you all.....
PHLfa88
Veteran
- Jan 19, 2004
- 826
- 35
You continue to perpetuate a LIE!
Frequent Flyers pay the frieght. UA says that 22% of their best customers deliver 43% of the revenue.
SWA sells the largest percentage of FULL-FARE tickets.
USA Today reports that since 9/11 Frequent Flyer Programs have netted the airlines FOUR BILLION in profit!
Instead of attacking me personally why not publish the percentage of Revenue your DM members are responsible for??
Afraid you'll be shown to be wrong? Why not put up or shut up? Take a testosterone injection. The World Com BK papers told the tale first and subsequent BK proceedings at US and UA filled in the blanks. Air Canada selling a portion of Aerroplan for Millions is the another myth buster, The USA Today pried the door wide open on the inner workings of the airlines Loyalty programs.
See either you are absolutely right and all the others are misguided and wrong, OR it's the other way around!
Frankly I'm not all that interested in UA's level of service inflight it's where Art and I differ. I want something "in Between" which is what the "new" US is supposed to deliver. What I don't like is to spend my Companies and my own money with an organization that insults me and outright lies to me as you are. That Sir?Maam just gets my big girl panties in a major wad.
You may return to your spreadsheet now, OH and don't break your arm patting yourself on the back and be careful if DP, SK and the like stop short, most people don't look good in brown
Take A Chill Pill Dude!! :groovy:
PHLfa88
Veteran
- Jan 19, 2004
- 826
- 35
RowUnderDCA
Veteran
- Oct 6, 2002
- 2,123
- 1
You continue to perpetuate a LIE!
Frequent Flyers pay the frieght. UA says that 22% of their best customers deliver 43% of the revenue.
SWA sells the largest percentage of FULL-FARE tickets.
USA Today reports that since 9/11 Frequent Flyer Programs have netted the airlines FOUR BILLION in profit!
Instead of attacking me personally why not publish the percentage of Revenue your DM members are responsible for??
Afraid you'll be shown to be wrong? Why not put up or shut up? Take a testosterone injection. The World Com BK papers told the tale first and subsequent BK proceedings at US and UA filled in the blanks. Air Canada selling a portion of Aerroplan for Millions is the another myth buster, The USA Today pried the door wide open on the inner workings of the airlines Loyalty programs.
See either you are absolutely right and all the others are misguided and wrong, OR it's the other way around!
Frankly I'm not all that interested in UA's level of service inflight it's where Art and I differ. I want something "in Between" which is what the "new" US is supposed to deliver. What I don't like is to spend my Companies and my own money with an organization that insults me and outright lies to me as you are. That Sir?Maam just gets my big girl panties in a major wad.
You may return to your spreadsheet now, OH and don't break your arm patting yourself on the back and be careful if DP, SK and the like stop short, most people don't look good in brown
that made me giggle. I think your tude still outstrips your stats.
That is accepting your stats. Hey, I don't work for an airline, hopefully never will. But just as a piece of rhetoric... try again.
FCYTravis
Senior
I'm going to add a little bit here about PineyBob's point - all take, no give.
I've been looking at what other FF programs offer as part of my due diligence - and it's obvious that every program and airline has pros and cons for a 75k flyer like me...
For example, I could get top-tier CO Plat with 125% bonus miles, a very comprehensive CO/DL/NW club network, etc. Cons are that upgrade chances would be tighter and the Y product isn't anything to write home about. With UA, I could comp over to PremEx with 100% bonus miles and get basically guaranteed quality E+ seating along with, again, more clubs, more mainline flights, etc. Yes but, pay for the upgrades, harder to get them, bazillions of UA elites in SFO, etc. Upside and downside to everything.
I originally picked HP knowing the limitations of the program but believing that the benefit of having fairly easy upgrades anywhere I fly would outweigh the rest. And it has - I put up with the thinnest club network of anyone, poor bonus miles and a substandard F product. because I knew I was virtually guaranteed to be sitting up front. And so far, I have been - my lifetime HP/US comp batting average is somewhere in the neighborhood of 85 percent - and that's mostly as a Gold or Silver.
But if the upgrades get tighter and if I can't get the up-front seat on the long-mid-transcon flights from SFO that make up the vast majority of my flying (2x ITH, 3x MCO/DAB, MIA, CMH, BHM, FLL, RDU, etc.) ... then that "killer app" is taken away, and I'm left with absolutely no reason not to go somewhere else.
Where's the upside to crappy bonus miles, 16 clubs, zillions of RJs *and* 280 fewer First Class seats throughout the fleet?
I've been looking at what other FF programs offer as part of my due diligence - and it's obvious that every program and airline has pros and cons for a 75k flyer like me...
For example, I could get top-tier CO Plat with 125% bonus miles, a very comprehensive CO/DL/NW club network, etc. Cons are that upgrade chances would be tighter and the Y product isn't anything to write home about. With UA, I could comp over to PremEx with 100% bonus miles and get basically guaranteed quality E+ seating along with, again, more clubs, more mainline flights, etc. Yes but, pay for the upgrades, harder to get them, bazillions of UA elites in SFO, etc. Upside and downside to everything.
I originally picked HP knowing the limitations of the program but believing that the benefit of having fairly easy upgrades anywhere I fly would outweigh the rest. And it has - I put up with the thinnest club network of anyone, poor bonus miles and a substandard F product. because I knew I was virtually guaranteed to be sitting up front. And so far, I have been - my lifetime HP/US comp batting average is somewhere in the neighborhood of 85 percent - and that's mostly as a Gold or Silver.
But if the upgrades get tighter and if I can't get the up-front seat on the long-mid-transcon flights from SFO that make up the vast majority of my flying (2x ITH, 3x MCO/DAB, MIA, CMH, BHM, FLL, RDU, etc.) ... then that "killer app" is taken away, and I'm left with absolutely no reason not to go somewhere else.
Where's the upside to crappy bonus miles, 16 clubs, zillions of RJs *and* 280 fewer First Class seats throughout the fleet?
N965VJ
Veteran
It is what it is – Must Ride.
