US Airways is at it again

[SparrowHawk]

Passenger forced to stand for a seven-hour airline flight
November 22, 2011

At nearly seven hours, US Airways flight 901 is one of the longest domestic nonstop airline flights. And Arthur Berkowitz knows how long it takes to get from Anchorage to Philadelphia down to the minute. That’s because he says he had to stand for most of the flight when he returned to Philly last July.

Why would anyone stand for that long? Because he says a morbidly obese passenger seated next to him was spilling into his personal space, making it impossibly to sit in his assigned seat, and the flight was completely full.

“I didn’t fly from Alaska to Philadelphia on flight 901,” he says. “I stood.”

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Can you say?, AZ State's Attorney Generals Office, Consumer Fraud Division. How about a DOT Complaint? Small Claims?

I knew you could boys and girls! I would think our gentle customer could file a criminal complaint for Theft of Services since he was denied a seat he paid for.

No such thing as a "Final" Offer. Don't worry, Doug there's plenty more customers to urinate on, have another beer!

 

[Art at ISP]

To be fair, the only thing they did wrong was NOT make a customer of size buy a second seat..meaning that this customer (or someone else) would not have gotten on in the first place.

I will leave it to debate which would have been preferable, however.....

I do think this customer would have been due more than $200 however.....also one begs to ask how the aircraft was able to take off and land with a passenger standing, or did he squeeze in for that ??

My BEST to you all...

 

[CallawayGolf]

To be fair, the only thing they did wrong was NOT make a customer of size buy a second seat..meaning that this customer (or someone else) would not have gotten on in the first place.

I will leave it to debate which would have been preferable, however.....

I do think this customer would have been due more than $200 however.....also one begs to ask how the aircraft was able to take off and land with a passenger standing, or did he squeeze in for that ??

My BEST to you all...

I agree; The gate agent failed to require a person of such size to purchase an extra seat; the flight crew failed to ensure FAA rules were followed and should have forced the gate to reduce the number of passengers by one; the person of size should have had the decency to yield his seat and wait for the opportunity to fly when there were enough seats to accommodate his size requirements; the passenger who stood for most of the flight should have notified the crew before the plane left the gate that he could not sit in the remaining portion of his seat or fasten his seat belt under the conditions and forced someone to make an appropriate decision. Plenty of failures to go around from both front line employees and passengers on this one.

The $200 voucher question is kind of a toss up. On the one hand the passenger got to his end destination and made $28/hr for standing. One would guess that he evaluated the options and decided that getting to his destination as planned was worth some degree of inconvenience. Objectively this is probably a fair compensation, but given the failures that occurred by both the gate and crew with a resulting safety violation, a bit more compensation could well be in order. However, the best outcome would have been the gate to pull the person of size off the plane and given him a choice of purchasing two tickets on the next available flight, or allowing him to be on standby waiting for a plane that would allow him use of an open seat. Sounds like time for a refresher course on dealing with issues like this is warranted for both ACS and in-flight.

 

[Phoenix]

MORE

Can you say?, AZ State's Attorney Generals Office, Consumer Fraud Division. How about a DOT Complaint? Small Claims?

I knew you could boys and girls! I would think our gentle customer could file a criminal complaint for Theft of Services since he was denied a seat he paid for.

No such thing as a "Final" Offer. Don't worry, Doug there's plenty more customers to urinate on, have another beer!

Not all oversize passengers are obese. I was on a flight several years ago sitting next to a beast of a guy that was built like a line backer and for the three of us to fit on the row of three seats we had to leave all the armrests up.

"Oversize passengers" is an issue that the airlines should figure out.

I don't think anyone should have to buy an extra seat (and lets be honest what airline has the stones to go out on that limb. or how often is it really necessary)... Asking for volunteers on a full flight would be very easy and a nearly zero cost item, on the few occasions it would be necessary it would avoid a lot of trouble, embarrassment, and newspapers... seems to me..

 

[nycbusdriver]

Not all oversize passengers are obese. I was on a flight several years ago sitting next to a beast of a guy that was built like a line backer and for the three of us to fit on the row of three seats we had to leave all the armrests up.

"Oversize passengers" is an issue that the airlines should figure out.

I don't think anyone should have to buy an extra seat (and lets be honest what airline has the stones to go out on that limb. or how often is it really necessary)... Asking for volunteers on a full flight would be very easy and a nearly zero cost item, on the few occasions it would be necessary it would avoid a lot of trouble, embarrassment, and newspapers... seems to me..

You're right that not every exceptionally large person is obese, but most who show up to go fly fit into that category. Years ago, wrestler/actor Andre the Giant flew with us all the time. He suffered from acromegaly. He always booked a first class seat, and he could hardly fit into that!

Regardless of the cause, the airline needs to have a clear policy of how these people are to be accommodated with respect to the Americans With Disabilities Act.

I doubt this gentleman was standing for the taxi out or takeoff. (The flight attendants would not have been able to give the captain the mandatory "seated and stowed" call prior to push back.) If he wanted to cause a change to take place, he needed to refuse the seat before they shut the cabin door and let the chips fall where they may.

Being a full grown+ adult male, I have non-revved on flights where only one seat was left. Usually something like 21B....a middle seat, of course. I've trod to the back of the airplane, and on more than one occasion turned and walked off for the very same reason this gentleman stood for 7 hours. It is impossible for 3 high-side-of normal (not obese,) full-sized adult males to sit comfortably for hours in a 3-across seat. It's just not. And the airlines should not expect that any of their customers should ever put up with that, nor should the even consider making them do so. Of course, it's about the bottom line and not customer satisfaction or comfort (despite passenger comfort being the third "official" corporate aim after safety and schedules.)

 

[Dont call me Shirley]

I doubt this gentleman was standing for the taxi out or takeoff. (The flight attendants would not have been able to give the captain the mandatory "seated and stowed" call prior to push back.) If he wanted to cause a change to take place, he needed to refuse the seat before they shut the cabin door and let the chips fall where they may.

BINGO! We have a winner. The time to address the problem was at the gate, not somewhere over Manitoba. Before we throw the gate agents under the bus, were they even told there was a problem?

Also, obesity - even morbid obesity - is not considered a disability under the ADA. Imagine the can of worms if it were.

 

[SparrowHawk]

If if ended up standing after take off for a flight from PHL to ALB, never mind ANC-PHL due to a passenger of size I'd be demanding a full refund.

Additionally, I'd file a complaint with the AZ, AK & PA Attorney's General over this. Throw in the DOT as well.

Sorry, but even at 6'2", 228lbs I'm on WN's side here. If your assets are to big for one seat? Buy Two! But, DO NOT ask me as a paying customer to sit (Or attempt) to sit next to a preson of size who is large enough to take up 1.5 seats.

If you want to match prixe to actual cost why not charge by the seat mile and the pound?

 

[HPearlyretiree]

BINGO! We have a winner. The time to address the problem was at the gate, not somewhere over Manitoba. Before we throw the gate agents under the bus, were they even told there was a problem?

Also, obesity - even morbid obesity - is not considered a disability under the ADA. Imagine the can of worms if it were.

Actually, under the ADAAA (American's with Disabilities Act Amendments Act), a case could be made that obesity is a disability. That isn't the issue here, the issue is reasonable accommodation.

 

[cynic]

If if ended up standing after take off for a flight from PHL to ALB, never mind ANC-PHL due to a passenger of size I'd be demanding a full refund.

Additionally, I'd file a complaint with the AZ, AK & PA Attorney's General over this. Throw in the DOT as well.

Sorry, but even at 6'2", 228lbs I'm on WN's side here. If your assets are to big for one seat? Buy Two! But, DO NOT ask me as a paying customer to sit (Or attempt) to sit next to a preson of size who is large enough to take up 1.5 seats.

If you want to match prixe to actual cost why not charge by the seat mile and the pound?

Given your behavior here, I'm surprised that you haven't booked a seat like that intentionally just to give yourself a reason to get on TV and expound about the shortcomings of the airline.

US has a clear policy on passengers of size. For some reason it was not followed in this case.

 

[necigrad]

I'm sorry, but something doesn't sound right here. First of all this "morbidly obese" passenger was permitted to board by the gate agents. Then the flight attendants let the plane take off when this guy couldn't use his seatbelt? Come on, no way. That's a huge FAA violation, no flight attendant worth a damn is going to allow that to happen. And THEN you've got the accusing passenger. He could have deplaned when he saw his seatmate, but didn't. I'm calling BS.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I'm sorry, but something doesn't sound right here. First of all this "morbidly obese" passenger was permitted to board by the gate agents. Then the flight attendants let the plane take off when this guy couldn't use his seatbelt? Come on, no way. That's a huge FAA violation, no flight attendant worth a damn is going to allow that to happen. And THEN you've got the accusing passenger. He could have deplaned when he saw his seatmate, but didn't. I'm calling BS.

You've nailed it. If this guy didn't object before even getting into his seat, then he should receive nothing. Waiting until airborne, and THEN deciding that the seat is unacceptable, is...well....unacceptable.

 

[ebwgs]

I'm sorry, but something doesn't sound right here. First of all this "morbidly obese" passenger was permitted to board by the gate agents. Then the flight attendants let the plane take off when this guy couldn't use his seatbelt? Come on, no way. That's a huge FAA violation, no flight attendant worth a damn is going to allow that to happen. And THEN you've got the accusing passenger. He could have deplaned when he saw his seatmate, but didn't. I'm calling BS.

Amen.

 

[SparrowHawk]

I'm sorry, but something doesn't sound right here. First of all this "morbidly obese" passenger was permitted to board by the gate agents. Then the flight attendants let the plane take off when this guy couldn't use his seatbelt? Come on, no way. That's a huge FAA violation, no flight attendant worth a damn is going to allow that to happen. And THEN you've got the accusing passenger. He could have deplaned when he saw his seatmate, but didn't. I'm calling BS.

Interesting point. I've been on flights that have taken off without all seat belts fastened. Doesn't happen very often but it does happen.

As to the complaining customer, when you want to get home from a place that is pretty far away like ANC is you can begin to rationalize. "How bad can it be", He/she really isn't THAT big", etc etc. Then you're airborne and he/she really is THAT big! Now you're stuck! It sucks all the way around and trust me the morbidly obese person has enough problems going on or they wouldn't be that big.

So now we fast forward and I'm betting that the customer that had to stand is plenty steamed on the drive home and he mentally write the note to US Airways. So he gets home fires up the lap top and the other customer is gaining weight with each keystroke and the person goes from "Chubby" to "Morbidly Obese" in three paragraphs. That reaction is one of the reasons I NEVER write a complaint letter to anyone until at least the day after. I want the letter to be polite, professional and strictly on point as to what my issue was.

Venting and spewing venom is what this board is for. I've B*tched a blue streak here and US has received maybe 20% of my rants as formal complaints because truthfully once you calm down and THINK you realize that somethings just don't meet the threshold for a complaint letter to be submitted.

In this case, based on what the article says and the comments here I think this does meet the threshold as a policy wasn't followed. I think the compensation was insufficient by any standard. If it were me, I'd aggressively pursue it as far as I could. WHY? Partly because airlines tend to dance around the issues with a Person Of Size and often policies aren't well defined.

 

[SparrowHawk]

New Article

In a poll on Elliott's consumer watchdog site, 96% (over 17,000 votes) thought that US Airways did not offer Berkowitz enough compensation. We agree.

 

[cynic]

No kidding, when you get one side of a story, you tend to believe it. Especially when the poll is comprised of people whose hobbies include complaining about companies.