Furthermore, the short-term "advantage" of being allowed to abrogate contracts is matched (if not exceeded) by the long term DISADVANTAGE of being unable to obtain decent financing/leases for a decade or more post-reemergence. Creditors and lessors may forgive while in bankruptcy, but they sure as h*ll don't forget afterwards.
United Snags $1b In Loans, Buys Time To Reorganize
- Thread starter Fly
- Start date
I have a question...Will the united employees be willing to lower there wages to america west level to make this work? ie. 13 per hr.
I would bet that consessions to that level are going to be asked by GE to give up the cash.....
U employees are being asked to go to that level now if you want to see the letter I will cut and paste it here for you it is not pretty...
I would bet that consessions to that level are going to be asked by GE to give up the cash.....
U employees are being asked to go to that level now if you want to see the letter I will cut and paste it here for you it is not pretty...
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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yes, please post it, Doc.
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
Doc said:
Doc,
That's funny!!!
More Humor:
http://airports.worldsbestdeals.com/humor/travel_humor.html said:
UTCEO Bruce Lakefield and VP Jerry Glass met with CWA President Morty Bahr at CWA's DC Headquarters on Tuesday, July 13. The US Airways executives asked for the meeting to lay out their view that US Airways needs employee concessions to avoid bankruptcy. They then laid-out more specifics of their proposals for CWA Passenger Service pay and benefit cuts.
In general, their proposal is to offer a buyout package (somewhat less than the CWA's proposal), and those who refuse the buyout and remain on the job would be reduced to the America West level in pay, vacation, sick benefits, retirement and retiree medical would be eliminated. Those recalled from furlough would come back at the starting rate. Those on the job would keep their seniority, but be reduced to the America West pay scale (top rate of $13.10 per hour). The executives also implied they are considering moving the res centers to "lower cost areas". All this is how management proposes to cut $122 million from the payroll and benefits of passenger service.
Our CWA research department continues to work with us on counter-proposals that will save the company money (very large amounts of money) but do not cut the employees' standard of living as the management's plan would.
There are no meetings with management scheduled at this point, but we will be setting up meetings in the near future.
CWA local presidents and staff will meet Friday with our bankruptcy attorney Dan Katz of the law firm Katz & Rantzman, and CWA research economists to review bankruptcy procedures and to develop data on our proposals.
We'll keep you informed of developments as they unfold.
What would it mean for us to go to America West salary and retirement levels? See for yourself:
US Airways
America West
% Cut
$ Lost Per Year
Top Hourly Pay:
$20.05
$13.10
35%
$14,456
Retirement:
9%
3%
6%
$2,936
Pay + Ret / year:
$45,457
$28,065
38%
$17,392
We will keep you posted.
CWA Local Officers and Staff
In general, their proposal is to offer a buyout package (somewhat less than the CWA's proposal), and those who refuse the buyout and remain on the job would be reduced to the America West level in pay, vacation, sick benefits, retirement and retiree medical would be eliminated. Those recalled from furlough would come back at the starting rate. Those on the job would keep their seniority, but be reduced to the America West pay scale (top rate of $13.10 per hour). The executives also implied they are considering moving the res centers to "lower cost areas". All this is how management proposes to cut $122 million from the payroll and benefits of passenger service.
Our CWA research department continues to work with us on counter-proposals that will save the company money (very large amounts of money) but do not cut the employees' standard of living as the management's plan would.
There are no meetings with management scheduled at this point, but we will be setting up meetings in the near future.
CWA local presidents and staff will meet Friday with our bankruptcy attorney Dan Katz of the law firm Katz & Rantzman, and CWA research economists to review bankruptcy procedures and to develop data on our proposals.
We'll keep you informed of developments as they unfold.
What would it mean for us to go to America West salary and retirement levels? See for yourself:
US Airways
America West
% Cut
$ Lost Per Year
Top Hourly Pay:
$20.05
$13.10
35%
$14,456
Retirement:
9%
3%
6%
$2,936
Pay + Ret / year:
$45,457
$28,065
38%
$17,392
We will keep you posted.
CWA Local Officers and Staff
767jetz
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,286
- 2,779
Sorry Doc, but United is not UsAirways. Never was - Never will be.Doc said:
US strategy is to transform into a LCC and mirror AWA. United is a different animal, and no one has any intention of attempting that trick.
Different strengths and weakness means a different approach. UA will certainly look to lower costs further to secure exit financing, but will not end up with the same fate as USAirways. Even our strongest critics believe this.
I have a question...Will the united employees be willing to lower there wages to america west level to make this work? ie. 13 per hr.
I would bet that consessions to that level are going to be asked by GE to give up the cash.....
U employees are being asked to go to that level now if you want to see the letter I will cut and paste it here for you it is not pretty...
No, 4.1 billion in savings from the upcoming pension slashing should be more than adequate.
I would bet that consessions to that level are going to be asked by GE to give up the cash.....
U employees are being asked to go to that level now if you want to see the letter I will cut and paste it here for you it is not pretty...
No, 4.1 billion in savings from the upcoming pension slashing should be more than adequate.
WOW You all are in for a big surprise what do you think U saved when we lost our pension a couple of bucks jez come on guys this isn't rocket science. Non of us can compete with 9 bucks an hour unless they bring back regulation..
ALL I CAN SAY IS VOTE DEMOCRAT......MAYBE IT WILL HELP
ALL I CAN SAY IS VOTE DEMOCRAT......MAYBE IT WILL HELP
U
UAL_TECH
Guest
Doc,
Not trying to be mean spirited about your post but I did think it was laughable (personally) that I would consider working for $13 an hour. I’m not as arrogant to believe that I may have to work for $13 an hour someday (life being as unpredictable as it is) but I can guarantee that it will not be in aviation. I have far too many years of aviation experience to prostitute myself for cheap.
The ‘company’ can ask anything it wants but I am already at my ‘concession’ point. I have no delusions that it will be very challenging for us here at the LazyU in the not too distant future.
The ‘real’ question is ‘Will you work for $13 an hour?’
Only ‘you' can answer your own question.
Good luck over at USAir.
B) UT
Not trying to be mean spirited about your post but I did think it was laughable (personally) that I would consider working for $13 an hour. I’m not as arrogant to believe that I may have to work for $13 an hour someday (life being as unpredictable as it is) but I can guarantee that it will not be in aviation. I have far too many years of aviation experience to prostitute myself for cheap.
The ‘company’ can ask anything it wants but I am already at my ‘concession’ point. I have no delusions that it will be very challenging for us here at the LazyU in the not too distant future.
The ‘real’ question is ‘Will you work for $13 an hour?’
Only ‘you' can answer your own question.
Good luck over at USAir.
B) UT
That is what I am trying to get across to all of you. I will vote no on any more cuts. If you read my post on the U forum I would rather go back to school. I would not want U to survive paying anybody 13 per hour. If LUV can turn a profit with high wages than us then the men an women at the top must go their plan is not working and has not for a long time.UAL_TECH said:
What I was trying to get across to all of you is don't be surprised the they ask for it. I can't say I was shocked when they ask us but I was very insulted that they would go so low..........
That depends on one crucial factor: access. The leading cause of monopolistic power in the airline industry is sufficient utilization of a region's capacity to render competition impractical. This is what makes the airline industry different from the others you listed.WorldTraveler said:
Yes, this lessens the monopoly concern.
I'm not so sure that they believe it. But we'll see.
WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
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- Banned
- #45
And that is why the government has a responsibility to ensure that all reasonable competitors have some access to all airports desired - which is exactly what the gov't has done re: DCA and LGA much to the consternation of the legacy carriers. Given the disproportionate power a few low fare flights can have on a market based on network dynamics, it is not really necessary for LCCs to have large presences at any airport in order for their power to be felt. Given that the gov't does control an essential part of the production cycle (system capacity), they have an interest in being involved in the airline industry on an ongoing basis.mweiss said:
That being said, while I'm sure the LCCs would love to have unlimited access I'm not sure that there are many markets where there is not an LCC alternative reasonably available if one wants to pursue it; there will never be an LCC alternative for every legacy route but there are reasonable alternatives on a connecting basis etc. Given that a pretty close to nationwide lower fare structure is probably not that far away, I think the monopolisitic concerns will greatly diminish. However, market concentration in the retail business is not significantly different from a transportation business to the consumer; focusing on the process of production doesn't matter if the final result is the same.
Michael,
would you like to list any steps which you believe need to occur to correct the "imbalance" of power that exists by some of the legacy carriers, potentially allowing combinations of legacy carriers? What is the market share threshold at the city and national level above which carriers should not be allowed to combine?
